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Can any one honestly make sense of this?
bardstale001
Member, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 18
First of all this is a statement about classes in general so I couldn't really put it in rogue, nor in the cleric section.
I mostly play a cleric (clearly the borked class right now),now what I ask is about vs Rogues.
Now in particular I just fought in a PVP match with a Rogue named "Xxxxxx xxxxxxx".
How in all the world from chaotic disorder to logic and order, from sanity to insanity, does it make any sense that any player, regardless of class, skill, or any other consideration, make any sense at all that this Rogue can just stealth any time they want in PvP battles.
I can tell you this clearly because I had the same instance at least four times in this PvP match.
He would go to flag #1 and would either have taken it, or be in the process of.
I'd see him standing by the flag and attack him. Now yes I'm a cleric but I had FF and SL up as spamable attack skills, SB, and plus HoF as a daily. So I know with blasting him with FF and SL even getting him below 1/2 health he'ed just stealth anyhow.
Now isn't the mechanic that if I do this kind of damage he's not supposed to be able to stealth?
Otherwise this makes NO sense at all. Is this what the designers intended?
Other rounds with the same guy I'd run over to the flag and I'd get hit invisibly with daggers (what ever that Rogue ranged skill is). Then it looked like he'd come out of stealth for just a fraction of a second and start throwing them again.
And then it was back to the other way, if I could see him long enough to target I'd spam FF and SL at him and back to stealth he went.
I asked in region chat "Exploiting to stay in stealth all the time?"
He responded: "notreally".
And went on to say "well report me then", then "ur not the first and surely not last"
Then he started to stand still a lot, and appears to intentionally make him self more of a target to hits and die, all the while no more magic stealth.
If this is in fact an exploit I can understand.
Otherwise can anyone tell me this as a game mechanic that lets you stealth any time, in the middle of a battle, yes even after taking a fair amount of damage, make any sense to you?
Edit: I removed the character name
I mostly play a cleric (clearly the borked class right now),now what I ask is about vs Rogues.
Now in particular I just fought in a PVP match with a Rogue named "Xxxxxx xxxxxxx".
How in all the world from chaotic disorder to logic and order, from sanity to insanity, does it make any sense that any player, regardless of class, skill, or any other consideration, make any sense at all that this Rogue can just stealth any time they want in PvP battles.
I can tell you this clearly because I had the same instance at least four times in this PvP match.
He would go to flag #1 and would either have taken it, or be in the process of.
I'd see him standing by the flag and attack him. Now yes I'm a cleric but I had FF and SL up as spamable attack skills, SB, and plus HoF as a daily. So I know with blasting him with FF and SL even getting him below 1/2 health he'ed just stealth anyhow.
Now isn't the mechanic that if I do this kind of damage he's not supposed to be able to stealth?
Otherwise this makes NO sense at all. Is this what the designers intended?
Other rounds with the same guy I'd run over to the flag and I'd get hit invisibly with daggers (what ever that Rogue ranged skill is). Then it looked like he'd come out of stealth for just a fraction of a second and start throwing them again.
And then it was back to the other way, if I could see him long enough to target I'd spam FF and SL at him and back to stealth he went.
I asked in region chat "Exploiting to stay in stealth all the time?"
He responded: "notreally".
And went on to say "well report me then", then "ur not the first and surely not last"
Then he started to stand still a lot, and appears to intentionally make him self more of a target to hits and die, all the while no more magic stealth.
If this is in fact an exploit I can understand.
Otherwise can anyone tell me this as a game mechanic that lets you stealth any time, in the middle of a battle, yes even after taking a fair amount of damage, make any sense to you?
Edit: I removed the character name
Post edited by Unknown User on
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http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?324111-Build-Guide-quot-INT-Rogue-quot-Perma-Stealth-Build
Oh look another player who doesn't understand the first thing about the class, complaining about the class, expecting that all they would need to do is stop allowing stealth in combat and it would solve everything. No if they did that, the rogue class would be unplayable. 70% of the rogue abilities deal with either attacking from stealth, or gaining a damage bonus while attacking from stealth. Just simply removing stealth would require a complete overhaul of the rogue abilities. If they do that they need to give something back to the rogue, but the problem with that is players like you would still cry.
I guess I have have to excuse my self for being an intelligent logical, critical thinking human being
and go get a lobotomy to make any sense of this game, and how anyone could let it run off like this.
Dumbfounded, still makes no sense at all..
BTW, my main is a rogue.
It's the way this game works, deal with it. If you had taken some time to actually look at the classes you're fighting, you would have known this.
TR's can slot a personal power that reduces stealthloss from damage by 90%, but that's another non-damage power to slot in order to keep stealth up.
It really amazes me how some people think. You have a lot of powers and feats to choose from on your cleric, yet when you PvP, you seem to act like all the other classes don't. That's what's getting you killed, not any OP power of whatever class.
I Agree stealth is definitely way over the top, but purely for the simple fact that alot of players think it is a build to strive for.
I could not disagree more.
The ONLY way a stealth build is a successful build, and ONLY way is if you pay to win your rogue in that fashion.
I am talking Greater / Perfect Vorpal's, Plaguefire's, Soulforged, Tenebrous, to raise your offensive abilities so much that simple cloud of steel with one or two Impact shots will kill anyone, even GF's..
If you run into these players during a match, just simply quit and leave them there twiddling thier fingers.
they need to score over 500 points to get glory and if you leave the match then they will only get roughly 200 glory, if that.
Mind you, this is about only 3 % of the rogue population that can afford to build their characters like such....they are spin off's of the AD exploit / Enchant exploit , which seems to be around still in some fashion...
the other 97 % of the rogues are your average daily joe's who grind out each day to try and improve their characters just a smidge per day.
If you want to call out the rogues who are Stealth Pay to Win... you can start now on these forums... How long that thread will last will be debatable, but it's a start.
So the community can know which one's to avoid so they can stay away from a horrible pvp experience.
I will fight any other class even on a pay to win set up... but a pay to win stealth rogue is severely unbalancing.
If anyone has doubts, play against Sweet Candy and Sour Candy on Mindflayer, then report your progress with SS's here.
I had some other suggestions on how to deal with the unbalancing in PvP on the end game part of it, and the only reasonable solutions from the community was these 2...
1. Gear Score matchmaking.
2. Fix Enchantments / Gear so it's a even playing field in PvP.
Other suggestions are welcome.
Costello: Abbott, you mean to tell me you can stealth when ever you want in PVP?
Abbot: Naturally.
Costello: I can run up and hit them to where they have 1/2 health left and they just stealth?
Abbot: Naturally!
Costello: He can hit me with a strong ranged skill then finish me off with melee skills all the while stealth and I can't do much about it?
Abbot: Naturally!, You just don't understand the class.
Costello: Hey ABBOT!
There is no reasoning with insanity, it just is.
To be more explicit for you: There is no answer.
I agree with your suggestions, but I fail to understand why you need to drag TR's into this. Perma stealth is not a problem, TR's can stay stealthed the whole match and it's still not a problem. It's the scaling of the enchantments on CoS that's the problem, and it doesn't matter if it's stealthed or not.
I mean, seriously, if a sniper didn't have a gun he wouldn't be a threat at all. And that's the thing with perma-stealth, a lot of TR's gimp their damage for it, and that's fine. It's no longer fine when enchantments more than make up for that damage loss.
I figure that when the proc rates are tuned down a bit, the need for gearscore tiered matches will be less too.
Then they both fail to understand the class. Stealth is not invisibility, you can see TR's when you walk around a bit. Pop an effect on them and you'll see that x really does mark the spot.
But if you just want to stand there taking it, I'm sure that's fine by the other team. Nothing to do with OP powers or anything though,
Ignorance is bliss ^
So you fell for his Bait and Switch ability? You really should take a look at what powers a TR has access to before claiming he's exploiting.
And yes, it's a class mechanic that TR's can enter stealth any time they have a full stealth meter. Stealth also wears off quickly unless the TR takes steps to rebuild the stealth meter. They can't just walk around stealthed all the time like some other games.