Great Weapon Fighters gain determination for being hit, in other words, they're rewarded for underperforming. Instead of making it so they gain this from taking damage, make it so that they gain determination solely through doing damage. This would serve as not only a boost to PvE but a balancing factor for PvP, where Unstoppable's temporary hit points and set bonus' are skewing fights in favor of those who get hit.
This change would of course warrant a rework of the Destroyer 21pointer, but it is a necessary change to make GWF more desirable in groups and more skill intensive in PvP.
This is coming from a Sentinel Specced GWF who PvP's exclusively.
Daint's the name. Pizza's my game.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
We can't dodge moron -.- is normal for us to get determination when we get hitted -.- i don't ask for a fix on trickster because they can dodge, i don't ask for a fix because DC can heal or CW can stun me forever -.- Learn to play
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bioshrikeMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 4,729Arc User
edited June 2013
Don't GWF's also get determination for killing enemies? There's also a passive to steadily gain determination as you are in combat. Making it so that you get determination for hitting an enemy may be too good...
<::::::::::::::)xxxo <::::::::::::::)xxxo <::::::::::::)xxxxxxxx(:::::::::::> oxxx(::::::::::::::> oxxx(::::::::::::::> "Is it better to be feared or respected? I say, is it too much to ask for both?" -Tony Stark Official NW_Legit_Community Forums
Might be a good idea, it's a pretty big change though and I canoot see with my humble thoughts whether it would be for better or worse. A downside would be, if you get chain CC'd at full health, which you have no way to prevent (no dodge) you will not have unstoppable to break free. If determination didn't detoriate over time, it might work.
Getting hit in PVP imo is not necessarily underperforming, it's just something that is going to happen during the match especially when you have a gimp shift ability. In pve, yes it is often underperforming, unless a GWF player is purposely getting hit to build determination.
IMO if a change like this were made it would be best to make a class feature that removes your ability to gain determination when taking damage and instead lets' you gain it from doing damage. That way people could chose the route they'd like to take and it would also add a little variety to GWF playstyle as well as some mystery to the GWF that is sprinting at you in PVP.
i disagree, specially in pvp... i see gwfs hiding behind my skirt all the time (am a cleric) and i always tell them they need to do their part and not use me as meatshield since they gain determination in combat and specially when they get damage.
Don't GWF's also get determination for killing enemies? There's also a passive to steadily gain determination as you are in combat. Making it so that you get determination for hitting an enemy may be too good...
The class feature that gives you determination as long as you are in combat, gives very very little determination over time.
AS for killing enemies, I dont' recall anything about the GWF granting this, then again I have only played my GWF once since early may.
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bioshrikeMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 4,729Arc User
edited June 2013
The thing about determination that annoys me most is how it drains away if you're out of combat. Divinity doesn't do this, stealth refills over time, as does block. Maybe they could remove that property so that we can store up determination for between battles, (I'm talking about instances where there's a little downtime between fights, not moving from 1 group to the immediate next one).
<::::::::::::::)xxxo <::::::::::::::)xxxo <::::::::::::)xxxxxxxx(:::::::::::> oxxx(::::::::::::::> oxxx(::::::::::::::> "Is it better to be feared or respected? I say, is it too much to ask for both?" -Tony Stark Official NW_Legit_Community Forums
Working as intended, learn to play the class. I have one who is 40 now and have had a more or less easy time of it just have to watch your health and find the healing spots and maybe a few potions for those oh @#$%@ moments.
The thing about determination that annoys me most is how it drains away if you're out of combat. Divinity doesn't do this, stealth refills over time, as does block. Maybe they could remove that property so that we can store up determination for between battles, (I'm talking about instances where there's a little downtime between fights, not moving from 1 group to the immediate next one).
If they took an approach with determination like with clerics that could work out nicely. Imagine having 4 or 5 bars of determination that build up as per usual by taking damage, killing blows, dealing damage if spec'd for it ect, but you gain it only half as quickly now and it didn't degrade over time. At the same time activating the power would use up a charge, so you could spam unstoppable for a rather impressive duration but afterwards your SoL and open season with maybe getting another unstoppable that lets you flee before your killed. The tricky part though is if its not enough charges they'll not be useful.
I guess I see Determination as Rage. I do play a GWF character and I think it works fine. Isn't there a feat that lets you gain Ra... er... Determination while dealing damage (and Action points while dealing damage under the influence of Rag... er.. Determination)?
*sings* "I like Gammera! He's so neat!!! He is full of turtle meat!!!"
"Hah! You are doomed! You're only armed with that pathetic excuse for a musical instrument!!!" *the Savage Beast moments before Lonnehart the Bard used music to soothe him... then beat him to death with his Fat Lute*
Great Weapon Fighters gain determination for being hit, in other words, they're rewarded for underperforming. Instead of making it so they gain this from taking damage, make it so that they gain determination solely through doing damage. This would serve as not only a boost to PvE but a balancing factor for PvP, where Unstoppable's temporary hit points and set bonus' are skewing fights in favor of those who get hit.
This change would of course warrant a rework of the Destroyer 21pointer, but it is a necessary change to make GWF more desirable in groups and more skill intensive in PvP.
This is coming from a Sentinel Specced GWF who PvP's exclusively.
Sentinel GWF are completely useless, just like protector build GFs.
Sentinel GWF are completely useless, just like protector build GFs.
Not in PvP they aren't. They rip **** to shreds and take less damage than GFs. My only t1 GW has 43% damage mitigation and 43% deflection chance (a ton of which is from a buff that stacks on hit, so I require hitting my enemy a few times). Even in t1, I can sit there and soak up damage from 3-4 people for a good half a minute before I start to sweat, unless I'm unlucky on their crits or my deflection. And of course, I bring people to less than half health with a single slew of my 3 offensive abilities.
If they took an approach with determination like with clerics that could work out nicely. Imagine having 4 or 5 bars of determination that build up as per usual by taking damage, killing blows, dealing damage if spec'd for it ect, but you gain it only half as quickly now and it didn't degrade over time. At the same time activating the power would use up a charge, so you could spam unstoppable for a rather impressive duration but afterwards your SoL and open season with maybe getting another unstoppable that lets you flee before your killed. The tricky part though is if its not enough charges they'll not be useful.
I wasn't quite thinking to that extent... a simple removal of determination draining away is all I'm after.
<::::::::::::::)xxxo <::::::::::::::)xxxo <::::::::::::)xxxxxxxx(:::::::::::> oxxx(::::::::::::::> oxxx(::::::::::::::> "Is it better to be feared or respected? I say, is it too much to ask for both?" -Tony Stark Official NW_Legit_Community Forums
Not in PvP they aren't. They rip **** to shreds and take less damage than GFs. My only t1 GW has 43% damage mitigation and 43% deflection chance (a ton of which is from a buff that stacks on hit, so I require hitting my enemy a few times). Even in t1, I can sit there and soak up damage from 3-4 people for a good half a minute before I start to sweat, unless I'm unlucky on their crits or my deflection. And of course, I bring people to less than half health with a single slew of my 3 offensive abilities.
We're rather OP. XD
The only diff is the 15% extra deflection bonus you are getting at the end tier feat of a sentinel and a bit more defense, which gives negligible damage mitigation. As a destroyer myself, i get way more dps, dedication by attacking other players which means i can use unstoppable much faster then a sentinel, shorter cool downs on takedown and roar which helps me control multiple targets trying to kill me, also dont forget roar gives me dedication too. So it basically means since i can use unstoppable much faster then a sentinel, i'll heal 15% of my hp much faster then a sentinel everytime i use unstoppable. So in short, not only can i beat the HAMSTER out of enemies, i can tank like a truck too.
We can't dodge moron -.- is normal for us to get determination when we get hitted -.- i don't ask for a fix on trickster because they can dodge, i don't ask for a fix because DC can heal or CW can stun me forever -.- Learn to play
The irony of this statement is amazing.
"Learn to play because I can't dodge stuff without dodge frames and you can."
Daint's the name. Pizza's my game.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Comments
"Is it better to be feared or respected? I say, is it too much to ask for both?" -Tony Stark
Official NW_Legit_Community Forums
Getting hit in PVP imo is not necessarily underperforming, it's just something that is going to happen during the match especially when you have a gimp shift ability. In pve, yes it is often underperforming, unless a GWF player is purposely getting hit to build determination.
IMO if a change like this were made it would be best to make a class feature that removes your ability to gain determination when taking damage and instead lets' you gain it from doing damage. That way people could chose the route they'd like to take and it would also add a little variety to GWF playstyle as well as some mystery to the GWF that is sprinting at you in PVP.
The class feature that gives you determination as long as you are in combat, gives very very little determination over time.
AS for killing enemies, I dont' recall anything about the GWF granting this, then again I have only played my GWF once since early may.
"Is it better to be feared or respected? I say, is it too much to ask for both?" -Tony Stark
Official NW_Legit_Community Forums
"Hah! You are doomed! You're only armed with that pathetic excuse for a musical instrument!!!" *the Savage Beast moments before Lonnehart the Bard used music to soothe him... then beat him to death with his Fat Lute*
Sentinel GWF are completely useless, just like protector build GFs.
We're rather OP. XD
I think this is a bit of a stretch of the truth.
I wasn't quite thinking to that extent... a simple removal of determination draining away is all I'm after.
"Is it better to be feared or respected? I say, is it too much to ask for both?" -Tony Stark
Official NW_Legit_Community Forums
The only diff is the 15% extra deflection bonus you are getting at the end tier feat of a sentinel and a bit more defense, which gives negligible damage mitigation. As a destroyer myself, i get way more dps, dedication by attacking other players which means i can use unstoppable much faster then a sentinel, shorter cool downs on takedown and roar which helps me control multiple targets trying to kill me, also dont forget roar gives me dedication too. So it basically means since i can use unstoppable much faster then a sentinel, i'll heal 15% of my hp much faster then a sentinel everytime i use unstoppable. So in short, not only can i beat the HAMSTER out of enemies, i can tank like a truck too.
Nah, I'm sure he's telling the truth. After all, I'd be sweating too if it took that long for me to kill my opponents.
The irony of this statement is amazing.
"Learn to play because I can't dodge stuff without dodge frames and you can."
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]