Defense vs. HP

visigoth18 · June 2013

I have 2 Defense slots left to fill on my armor, and I'm trying to figure out which is best to stack...

- are there 'Soft Caps' "and if yes...what are they" on Defense, +HP, Deflect, Lifetap? to be honest I'm lost @_@

- and as a GWF what are the best Enchantments for lvl60 "Armor & Weapon"

My Build/ Stats.

-Stats-

-Feats-

snowballo · June 2013

Def gets very heavy DR past 3,5k

craftymang · June 2013

Put HP in your defensive slots. Diminishing return proof enchant. Deflect could be good too.

visigoth18 · June 2013

Hey thanks for the advice, which do you think is better 'Deflect' or 'HP'?
I've only got Two Defensive Slots open, so maybe I would get 400-600 points with two rank7 Enchantments.

veleriawhitewolf · June 2013

Consider Dark enchants for Lifetap. As a GWF you may often find yourself away from support for a few seconds and the lifetap can help keep you alive until the cleric can get to you.

etherealj · June 2013

craftymang wrote: »

Put HP in your defensive slots. Diminishing return proof enchant. Deflect could be good too.

HP has diminishing returns like any other stat.

levander2 · June 2013

Deflect is what I would go for in your situation.

mconosrep · June 2013

etherealj wrote: »

HP has diminishing returns like any other stat.

Could you provide a link for this please?

etherealj · June 2013

mconosrep wrote: »

Could you provide a link for this please?

Start with 30000 hp and calculate the increased effective hp in % every time you add a rank 5 radiant.

The first enchant is 1.57% increase in effective health, then 1.55%, etc. if stat soft caps don't change by the time GFs hit 40k hp, that first enchant is only about a 1% increase in survivability.

For classes with low base defense, it's relatively easy for defense to be better then hp.

nutsnack · June 2013

mconosrep wrote: »

Could you provide a link for this please?

if you have 1000 hp + 100 gives +10% max hp, the next 100 + 9.09%, the next 100 8.333% etc.

there also gets a point were more hp doesn't even matter because nothing could burst you down that much and the effective hp from heals doesn't stack with hp (outside % heals) were armor does quite well.

basically the rule for tanks is that you want to live so long without a healer, and use max hp to do that and otherwise get as much armor/dodge you can (typically armor is better because you want more consistent def but when returns start to fall you get some in tell it's DR then keep them balanced(% wise) with armor priority)

snowballo · June 2013

% wise same as power, yes
But actual number you gain from increasing hp is not diminished just like power

mutantdemocracy · June 2013

veleriawhitewolf wrote: »

Consider Dark enchants for Lifetap. As a GWF you may often find yourself away from support for a few seconds and the lifetap can help keep you alive until the cleric can get to you.

Life Steal is decent on Instigator and Sentinel, but is godlike on Destroyer.

All dailies, enounters, and at-wills will proc life steal. This means that you can get a massive amount of health back from mobs. 5% life steal, semi-decent gear, and Unstoppable is enough to let you outlive any other member in your party, including a full tank GF.

guurzak · June 2013

etherealj wrote: »

Start with 30000 hp and calculate the increased effective hp in % every time you add a rank 5 radiant.

The first enchant is 1.57% increase in effective health, then 1.55%, etc. if stat soft caps don't change by the time GFs hit 40k hp, that first enchant is only about a 1% increase in survivability.

For classes with low base defense, it's relatively easy for defense to be better then hp.

When people talk about diminishing returns in the context of a video game, they're almost always referring to a game-mechanic formula where increasing a primary stat returns less and less of a derived stat. By this definition, +hits does not have diminishing returns. If I add 1000 HP, I can soak one additional 1000-point hit. If I add another 1000 HP, I can soak a second additional 1000-point hit. That trend line is linear; it does not have a diminishing returns curve.

Certainly, if we use DR in the broader sense of play value, then adding hits definitely has DR: Any additional health above the minimum necessary to keep you alive has no value whatsoever. But, unless you clearly specify that you are not referring to game-mechanic DR when you are using DR to refer to diminishing play value, then you are not communicating clearly and are creating significant potential for misunderstanding.

visigoth18 · June 2013

I updated the OP in the hopes of giving a better baseline for where Im coming from. "I probably should have done that to begin with"

@_@ Stat building makes my head hurt lol

So now I'm back to a fuzzy Decision again.
- I love the idea of "Lifetap" but I'm not sure how often it would proc with my build...
- as for Defense, I'm kinda fuzzy on the 'soft cap" I'm at 1,878
- My baseline HP are 25,297...
- My Deflect is so low at 279, would it be best to focus on raising this? or is it so low that its not even worth it...

So I'm still unsure on which would be best "I would prefer" lol, so tiring ~_~

gyridh · June 2013

nutsnack wrote: »

if you have 1000 hp + 100 gives +10% max hp, the next 100 + 9.09%, the next 100 8.333% etc.

there also gets a point were more hp doesn't even matter because nothing could burst you down that much and the effective hp from heals doesn't stack with hp (outside % heals) were armor does quite well.

basically the rule for tanks is that you want to live so long without a healer, and use max hp to do that and otherwise get as much armor/dodge you can (typically armor is better because you want more consistent def but when returns start to fall you get some in tell it's DR then keep them balanced(% wise) with armor priority)

You need to consider the baseline. If you have 1000hp and you get +100, that's +10%, if you get another +100, you get +200 so that's 20%, etc.
Otherwise every stat has diminishing returns, while dps-wise they get the same results. If you get from 1% to 2% crit, you get a 100% crit increase. If you get from 51% to 100%, that's only a 98% increase. While obviously the second increase gets a lot more dps.

I do agree that health only goes so far due to the healing though.

etherealj · June 2013

guurzak wrote: »

When people talk about diminishing returns in the context of a video game, they're almost always referring to a game-mechanic formula where increasing a primary stat returns less and less of a derived stat. By this definition, +hits does not have diminishing returns. If I add 1000 HP, I can soak one additional 1000-point hit. If I add another 1000 HP, I can soak a second additional 1000-point hit. That trend line is linear; it does not have a diminishing returns curve.

Certainly, if we use DR in the broader sense of play value, then adding hits definitely has DR: Any additional health above the minimum necessary to keep you alive has no value whatsoever. But, unless you clearly specify that you are not referring to game-mechanic DR when you are using DR to refer to diminishing play value, then you are not communicating clearly and are creating significant potential for misunderstanding.

Every point of Defense or HP gives a smaller % increase in survivability then the one before it. You're having problems conceptualizing it but I forgive you and your two unnecessary paragraphs.

visigoth18 · June 2013

This is a very cool Thread "It's helping me finally figure out whats worth me getting"

Defense vs. HP

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