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Suggestions to fix Great Weapon Fighters
simkinfool
Member Posts: 26 Arc User
This is how I would fix GWF if I were a dev and it was up to me.
-Weapon Master Strike no longer increases at-will damage.
-Weapon Master Strike now reduces damage the target deals by 10%
-All at-wills now deal 30% more damage baseline.
-Wicked Strike is now gained at level 2.
-Reaping Strike is now available after spending 20 points.
-Reaping Strike no longer has a target limit.
-All AoE encounters now give a flat amount of Action Points as long as they affect at least 1 target.
-Daring Shout no longer has a target limit.
-Daring Shout no longer shoots strange blue fire from your mouth.
-Mark now lasts a minimum of 10 seconds(for both GF and GWF). Unless overwritten by another Mark.
-Come and Get it no longer has a target limit.
-Come and Get it now functions much like Reaping Strike. While charging, it will suck in opponents and when released it deals damage.
-Steadfast Determination now increases AP gain by 2/4/6% and provides 1/2/3% Determination per second in combat.
-Battle Fury now lasts 10 seconds and it's animation time has been decreased.
-Avalanche of Steel now increases movement speed by 50%, decreased time to pick a landing by 50%.
-Punishing Charge... works better.
Feats:
- Fleet Footed now lasts for 5 seconds
- Group Assault now also increases the damage of Weapon Master Strike.
- Grim Promise now reduces the damage marked targets deal by 10%
- Grudge style now also affects Wicked Strike.
- Intimidation: Reduces the cool down of Daring Shout by 1/2/3/4/5 seconds. Daring shout and Come and Get it now deal 1/2/3/4/5% of your power every second for 5 seconds, this damage deals 100% increased threat.
Add what you got, and flame away.
-Weapon Master Strike no longer increases at-will damage.
-Weapon Master Strike now reduces damage the target deals by 10%
-All at-wills now deal 30% more damage baseline.
-Wicked Strike is now gained at level 2.
-Reaping Strike is now available after spending 20 points.
-Reaping Strike no longer has a target limit.
-All AoE encounters now give a flat amount of Action Points as long as they affect at least 1 target.
-Daring Shout no longer has a target limit.
-Daring Shout no longer shoots strange blue fire from your mouth.
-Mark now lasts a minimum of 10 seconds(for both GF and GWF). Unless overwritten by another Mark.
-Come and Get it no longer has a target limit.
-Come and Get it now functions much like Reaping Strike. While charging, it will suck in opponents and when released it deals damage.
-Steadfast Determination now increases AP gain by 2/4/6% and provides 1/2/3% Determination per second in combat.
-Battle Fury now lasts 10 seconds and it's animation time has been decreased.
-Avalanche of Steel now increases movement speed by 50%, decreased time to pick a landing by 50%.
-Punishing Charge... works better.
Feats:
- Fleet Footed now lasts for 5 seconds
- Group Assault now also increases the damage of Weapon Master Strike.
- Grim Promise now reduces the damage marked targets deal by 10%
- Grudge style now also affects Wicked Strike.
- Intimidation: Reduces the cool down of Daring Shout by 1/2/3/4/5 seconds. Daring shout and Come and Get it now deal 1/2/3/4/5% of your power every second for 5 seconds, this damage deals 100% increased threat.
Add what you got, and flame away.
Post edited by simkinfool on
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Comments
WTF is wrong with everyone? I am usually always #1 or #2 in all dungeons and I wreck face in PvP we are demi-gods right now and here you all are still complaining.
It's about making skills make sense and quality of life.
GWF are supposed to be AoE DPS and a secondary defender, which means killing adds before they kill a squishy. The wicked/reaping swap was made because lets face it.. reaping is an acquired taste and should never have been a starter at-will. However, removing it's target cap makes it the only full AoE At-will which gives it a time and place to fit.
WMS change is so that every single GWF.. ever.. isn't forced to keep this at-will on their bar. (the 30% boost to at-wills is already there, I've just removed the middleman so when you look at your weapon then look at an at-will the damage might at least be a little similar. At the moment At-wills listed damage is just so far off what the weapon claims to do it's laughable.)
of the AoE encounters only Roar seems to be giving more AP for each target hit. Come and get it needs work because at the moment it deals no damage of it's own and 90% of the time it will only pull the mobs that are already right next to you due to target cap. The buff from it means basically you must keep an aoe encounter with good damage and a similar cooldown and chain them together to form a single encounter ability.
Mark as it stands needs to be fixed, if that is supposed to be a threat mechanic for fighters it needs to stay on for at least a short duration because what typically happens is you mark, mob randomly hits you (either aimed or random aoe) mark falls off and then it goes and eats a CW or DC. It needs to last for at least 5 seconds after you get hit or else only allow full hits (not deflected) to remove it.
SF Determination atm is a complete joke, the gain from it is completely unnoticeable.
Battle Fury's animation eats half the buff meaning this skill is basically 'recharge stam button' and not what it is supposed to be.
Avalanche takes forever to land and most of the time you would be better off simply using a normal AoE rotation for the damage it does. The stun alone is not enough.
Grim promise is there because while mark should do that by default, it doesn't in this game so the feat at least makes up for it.
Grudge style change is for an AoE threat At-will.
Intimidation is the closest thing I've added to a DPS buff.. and it's not the damage it's for the threat. 25% power over 5 seconds every 12ish seconds is nothing to write home about, but 50% power as threat over 5 seconds might actually keep a mob less focused on the CW/DC and more on yourself.
Would be nice to be overpowered so folks have a reason to keep us in groups
Which change specifically would make us overpowered?
I'm curious.
My intention is not actually to buff us, but rather to correct glaring issues as I see them.
WMS needs to go, they currently must balance our DPS with the idea that it has 100% uptime, yet personally I hate the skill and it's animation.
I would like to be able to use Wicked/Sure Strike as a combo, however that's not currently possible. Every single spec must use WMS in one of the two slots if it wants to not gimp itself.
The change to mark might be a bit much I agree, but it does need to last at least a couple swings on them or something.
As far as the no target limit skills go.. most classes have at least one if not more, we have none.. and we are supposed to specialize at aoe?
Third point down: -All at-wills now deal 30% more damage baseline.
Not asking for a damage buff huh, sure looks that way to me.
Come and Get it no longer has a target limit.
This is a DPS increase or damage increase as well.
Steadfast Determination now increases AP gain by 2/4/6% and provides 1/2/3% Determination per second in combat.
This also is a damage increase as you are asking for faster AP gains meaning more daily's.
Stop fooling yourself you ARE asking for damage buffs and the above is really not needed.
Weapon Master Strike is better then Reaping strike learn to use it.
All you are doing is QQIng like 90% of the other GWF's who are lazy, and have no clue how to play your class. You increase base damage of our at Wills and holy HAMSTER will we ever be op.
If you can't stay in a group than you suck or the people you are with are stupid and have no clue what a GWF can do in the CORRECT hands. I do well never get kicked out of groups etc. I think it is a L2P issue with you.
WMS debuffs the target to increase at will damage by 30% , he is asking that this 30% be moved to the at wills base damage instead. = not a damage increase
(and of course the 30% damage increase should be removed as OP also wrote)
CaGI is not a damage ability, its a tanking ability, great for positioning but the target cap and the long animation makes it very hard to work with. let me give you an example:
im on add control in a sentinel spec on pirate king, kiting around the mobs, when the mages spawn, i want these mages to go for me and i need agro, i cant hit both at once so i use CaGI, but ive got 50 mobs after so the 5 targets hit is random and i end up pulling ruffians close to me and get knockback and the mages are still free to hit the healer/cw.
thus CaGI is a tanking/control abilty if you are using it for a dps output spec you are most likely lowest on the meter.
Imo they can remove the 20% damage buff as long as this ability loses the hit cap.
steadfast determination is worthless atm, something needs to be done, i dont necesarily agree that it should increase increase AP as AP gain is already one of the strengths of the class.
"Stop fooling yourself..."
there is a forum for flaming, its called the lower depths
http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/forumdisplay.php?841-The-Lower-Depths
if you have to critisize other people back it up with knowledge, all this "L2P ****" attitude is just agravating
You do realize that WMS already does that yes? it's +/- 0% increase.
Name one spec that uses SFD. Go try the live version and tell me it's on par with.. anything. Every single other passive has a much better bonus, this way at least it fills a niche. Would I use even this improved version? Most likely not because it still wouldn't be on par with the others.
CaGi currently has a 5 target limit, and if you've not used it you may not realize this.. it does no damage of it's own.
CaGi mimics the next attack you make within 3seconds to a lesser extent.
CaGi works well with IBS/Roar/Restoring Strike/NSF and if there are tons of mobs.. Slam.
WMS is HAMSTER, it has a horrid animation and currently only exists to provide the 30% increase to some other at-wills damage.
Instigator: WMS + Wicked Strike
Destroyer: WMS + Reaping or Sure Strike
Sentinel: WMS + Sure Strike
Not sure about you but I don't consider tap WMS, use real attack chain,tap WMS, use real attack chain or if you use SS as the other simply spamming WMS in AoE conditions to require some huge amount of skill. My way simply frees us from being forced to use WMS in every single spec.
I know how to play, you however.. not so sure.
That would also work to be perfectly honest.
I used AP gain because something needs to be done with it and that was simply something that no other passive provided.
I could have just as easily added a damage reflect, or snare or cool down reduction. It needs +something to bring it in line with the other passives.
- Threat needs tweaking.
* Grudge Style includes WS and/or WMS.
* Intimidation damage and/or threat increased.
or
* Alternatively, Indominatible Battle Strike bonus AP no longer requires a killing blow for Sentinels,
So they don't have to constantly compete with killing blows for Slam Threat, considering how slam currently is our primairy/only source of AoE threat.
- Damage moved more towards Destroyer and Instigator Builds, so Sentinels gain less benefit.
Sentinels currently have both strong offense and defense, with a threat fix, they will be the dominant tank by far.
- Knockback removed from Roar.
While displacement tools can be useful, but in this case, it is far more obnoxious than it is useful.
- Make Sentinel GWFs acknowledged as Tanks for the queue tool.
-As far as threat goes, I believe I covered that.
-Did that.
-Did that.
*IBS should not really be a Sentinel tool, It's a tool for the other two specs to help them with add control.
-Not sure exactly how this works, suggestions?
- The issue with Roar is that either A) it is bugged and providing too much AP or b) the other AoE encounters are bugged and providing too little. The knockback is fine, there simply needs to be an alternative to using it that doesn't have the knockback. Not So Fast or Daring Shout would fill this role perfectly.. if they generated similar AP values.
- While yes I would love a shorter queue time, I do not view Sentinels as Primary Defenders. I would rather see Bosses tweaked so that anything other than a defender gets wrecked trying to tank it.
The block/defensive mechanics of the guardian fighter scream 'I like big... hits!'
While the deflection and defensive mechanics of the great weapon fighter prefer many small hits.
The way I see optimal party makeup at the moment is one of each class. GF and TR on boss, CW and GWF on adds, DC on everyone. The GWF tanks/kills the adds and the CW controls/kills. GF and TR are both highly specialized in big hits(one deals them the other takes them). And as such they are perfect for boss killing.
The current problem is that CWs can generally control the adds well enough to.. push em off a cliff. Which means no one needs to kill them or tank them. Bosses deal joke damage so literally anyone can tank them no problem. GF's do not have nearly enough AoE threat or defensive abilities to deal with massive groups of adds. They aren't supposed to need them, after all there is a class that has that role. They simply cannot currently perform it.
Sentinel spec should be simply a more defensive way to get it done, while the other 2 specs deal more damage killing them quicker. Sentinel takes less damage, kills slower but has better control tools.
Reaping strike is some-what viable, but you gimp your self using it. You will have a drastic increase in dps, even using the destroyer tree, using WMS/SS or WMS/WS. Fact is, it's charge speed is far too long for how little it rewards. I'm not asking for a damage buff to it; it's damage is fine, it does however need a small buff to it's charge speed to make it viable.
Not to mention, the first reaping strike used after using unstoppable does not receive any speed buff (bug). This alone, makes the at-will basically suck. At least 80% or more of damage comes from at-wills. In saying that, it's no wonder why unstoppable is the bread and butter to GWF DPS. Having unstoppable not even work with reaping strike sets the at-will at a huge disadvantage when trying to maximize DPS. (Also the charge animations and charge cast bar aren't even in sync with reaping strike when under unstoppable... not gaming breaking at all, just incredibly annoying and lazy developing on their part).
The last comment about Reaping strike, it's feat buffer under the destroyer tree, "executioner's style", has to be the most useless feat in the game. An AoE-centric class, AND an AoE-centric ability, receiving a damage buff when only attacking a single target? It defeats the whole purpose of the at-will and the class in general; RARELY will a GWF be attacking a single-target, and if they are, 99% of the time they're doing something wrong.
So really think about it, is reaping strike all that viable when comparing to SS or WS? I would say no.
HAHAH your hating on QQing GWFs of course they are QQing they may be good in PvP now but they are terrible in a group, I have never seen a successful Epic Dread Vaults or CN run with a GWF we just dont take them they dont help the group. And the suggestions he is asking for wont even put a dent in making players want them in there groups. You could double a GWF's AOE damage and we will still want CW's to through things off edges over a GWF aoe damage.
If they nothing else of that but the threat stuff and the change to Weaponmaster strike i'd be happy.
I laugh at you for thinking that, 'if the game is only gonna have 5classes' -Two more have been confirmed for a LONG time.
1. GWF's aren't weak, not in any way or form.
2. There's no one way to play the class, as both Destroyer and Instigator bring some good traits to the table.
3. And I don't udnerstand that people still haven't learned the trick with WMS+Wicked Strike.
-On a sidenote to that fact, I'm glad. It makes me feel better whenever people don't understand how you can synergize those two with eachother, it's not just winging one Weapon Master Strike at the mobs, and then spamming wickedstrike till the debuff runs out.
There's more to it, but I'll let you find that out for yourself.
1. You are correct, they aren't weak. Which is why this isn't a 'buffme' post. They currently cannot however complete the roles given them by the developers. Secondary defender implies off-tank. As in holding the attention of the things the tank is not tanking, keeping them off squishies. They cannot do this currently for two reasons:
A) poor agro generation
2. That's great, however, strangely we have 3 feat paths. If you notice, 98% of this post is not aimed toward the first two trees.
3. I can only assume you are referring to the '4 hit combo' WS. I know that one is considered an exploit (obviously), as such I personally don't bother with it. Would it increase my damage? yes. Is it worth losing my account/characters over? no. Not when all they would have to do is run a search of the debug logs if they felt so inclined.