Trading Reviews - Deception

lumicakery · June 2013

DECEPTION
NW-DOW29LZOR
Author-@Lumicakery

Hey guys, the name of this foundry is called, Deception and it's a sequel to my first, Valerie's Dream.

It has two possible endings and a fair amount of dialogue. If its possible, can you tell me which ending you get? I wanna know how easy it is to get a certain ending and what not.

I'm only asking for a trade for this quest, but if you get the time, try out the prequel, (about 20 mins, qualifies for daily).

Thanks in advance

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anrix2 · June 2013

As I said in game, I didn't expect an ending like that. This was the first foundry I played that could have alternative endings. It is really clever design.

You may want to go back through the bandit cave again, I saw some chains clipping through stuff, like a mining cart, posts, etc... Also since you have all those lanterns around have you tried turning off the lights in the cave to see what type of atmosphere that would create, I bet it would look cool.

Good job on the variety of encounters. I did find it strange at one point that a heavy construct was helping me out with a flimsy bow, also Valeria and Picard, though they were suppose to follow, kept disappearing and reappearing as part of the design. Why not make them a friendly encounter that follows, and just refresh them every milestone in the story, and after reaching certain checkpoints on the map, to insure they always have a descent amount of health.

It was a really fun adventure, and the map is more detailed than most. I really like that dusty town with the gallows that you created.

I'll trade you an Ashmadai adventure for an Ashmadai adventure. It is called The Dirty Dwarf:

http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?365562-The-Dirty-Dwarf-(Open-For-Business)

Shortcode: NW-DUSXF6LXI

Man, that ending to your quest was really cool. If I wrote story driven quests I would totally steal that idea, fortunately I only make pretty hack-n-slashes

I should also add, the title Deception totally sums up the quest...you got me lol

harmor · June 2013

Played it today and was amazed how great it was, i loved the multiple ending and felt so bad when i chose the wrong girl. im going to play it again in order to see the other ending.

lumicakery · June 2013

Thx for the reviews guys, appreciate it

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@anrix2, I'll try to see what I can do. And get to your foundry soon.

irtoof75 · June 2013

This quest was amazing, nuff said.

A few things. Quite a bit of the dialogue needs to be spell checked. I would recommend running it all through a spellchecker.
A suggestion, add some more details to your town to liven it up. It seemed kind of bare to me. Some trees, shrubs and flowers. Maybe some furniture, stools, tables, chairs, grain bags, crates, whatever. Maybe also change the sky over the town? Not to sure about this suggestion though. The sunshine gives it a more peaceful feel.

You have a gift for storytelling that is for sure. I'm looking forward to your next foundry quest. My quest is in my signature, when you get the chance give it a try. I could use some feedback, I'm new at this foundry stuff.

lumicakery · June 2013

hey anrix2, just played yours. I liked it

.

I have a question thought, how do you resize objects? I think you did it, if im not mistaken.

gonna try out yours next, irtoof75

anrix2 · June 2013

I am glad you enjoyed it. I am still tuning the combat a bit, especially in the bar.

Which object are you referring to? I clip a lot of stuff together to make new objects that aren't in the catalog, I also hide pieces of objects I don't want people to see, but there is no resize option. I can let you know what it is or what I did if you have the object in mind.

lumicakery · June 2013

@anrix2, hmmm you didnt resize anything then? nvm.
@irtoof75, left my review at your thread.

gornonthecob · June 2013

Hey, lumicakery!

I just wanted to give you a quick list of things to take a look at in your quest, and give some feedback! Here goes!!!

Quest Description
"...instead of complying to the bandits..." Should be [with] the bandits

A Personal Observation: The beginning of the quest is a bit sudden. I'm just automatically in the cave with no explanation as to how I found it, or how I even knew what I was looking for. Thank god for Derp, I guess! :P

The Healer
After telling him you know who he is, or was:
'Does'nt matter, after the people found out about my dealings...." [Change to Doesn't]
"...I was casted away from society and stopped receiving my divinity." [Change to "cast away". It's still past-tense. Possibly change 'society' to "the church" or something to that affect?]

Valerie Rietfield
After you ask "Why not kill him when he is binded" (which should be 'bound', not binded) she says "The demon will mostl likely return..." [Remove the l from 'mostl'.]

"You're a bundle of suprises are'nt you..." [change to: You're a bundle of suprises [insert comma] AREN'T you?]

The Demon
After unbinding his circle: "She flees to the outer room and the demon pursuits her." [ Change pursuits to pursues. ]

Guard Picard
Response "Kill them all [Insert comma] of course."
"His nervouse energy seems to have disappeared." [Should be "nervous" maybe "nervous demeanor"?]

Valerie Rietfield in demon village
Picard interferes your conversation with Valerie... [change 'interferes' to 'interrupts']

There are two Valerie's and Picards after you inspect the dead guard. You forgot to despawn the followers.

EDIT: I now have 2 Valerie followers AND 2 Guard Picard follwers after speaking to Valerie about the dead guards.

When mentioning the town to the Valerie on the LEFT:
...protection against demons as well as [change to: "mundane"] threats...

In response to that, you say "I saw none of those, [change to "save"] for Picard [insert comma] who was an ...

Next response says "Several times, the demon's body would switch into a human [insert comma] or an elf. This [change to "happened'] after a tough....

William Rietfield (Ending A) <-Yay me!

...Not only have you saved my soul, but you made me [change to realize]...

ON A SIDE NOTE: I'm not entirely sure, but I THINK the same Valerie (the left one) who says she was not with you in the town also says that Guard Picard tried to attack her, but she had her golems ready. If that's correct, it could be a huge plot hole as she would NOT have been in the town to be attacked. Am I making sense? I might be getting my Valerie's mixed up. Even if she was definitely not the Valerie who was with you, why would the guard try to attack her? (it would be like the bandit attacking the demon?) Now I need an asprin! Lol

All in all, this was a great quest! There are a few kinks that need ironing, but it's mostly easy fixes!

lumicakery · June 2013

hey man, thx for all the typo reports and the thing with picard and valerie, really appreciated

.

*spoiler alert*

the valerie on the left was the one with you in town, and yeah she said picard tried to attack her. She lied. Simple as that

. Remember, picard was the bandit working for the demon, so in truth, they were just discussing stuffs. Most likely the bandit getting impatient and what not, (i mean like hes an ordinary bandit storming a village and everything).

hb4gaming · June 2013

Nice job with the alternative endings! I'm guessing that this is a tactic that will soon become almost standard because it's a fabulous way to incentivize people to replay a story-heavy quest. Really well done!

My notes on spelling/grammar are pretty much covered by Gorn's review above. The one exception: I chose the lying Valerie. The demon you speak to uses the word "thouist" (not a word) which I think you want to replace with "thy".

It may matter which order you speak to Valerie/Picard in, but I had the same issue as described by Gorn - except I had one Picard and two Valerie followers.

I hadn't played your first quest, so Derp was a really useful addition. Thanks! Also liked the difficulty options. Combat was well tuned for me and the music that queued during combat was nicely done.

Thanks for creating Foundry quests! I'm off to play Valerie's Dream now...

lumicakery · June 2013

Hey man, just played your quest and sent you an inbox review. But for some reason its not showing at my sent messages. Let me know if you didnt receive anything and Ill just the review here

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j54219 · June 2013

Great run lumicakery.
Hoping this makes daily soon. Ran B but looking forward to running it again to check out other ending.

Not too much negative I can say. Great variety of choices. Good Depth. Good positioning of npc.
Good luck!

sphecida · June 2013

This looks fun! I'll definitely give it a go. I'm new to the Foundry and am eager to try out a story with alternate endings.

Ok, I just finished it and enjoyed it very much. I'm glad there was a difficulty choice, as I am not the greatest fighter. I'm much better at tackling grammar and spelling, so I'm going to point out a few things you might want to change in the dialogue:

Valerie: Before my mother settled down with my father, she led the interesting life of a warlock. [I might change "warlock" to "wizard" or "necromancer" or "demonologist," simply because warlocks are usually male.]

Sometimes I would loosen the guards' belts (possessive)

remove the summoning circle that binds him

He will sustain an injury, but (comma)

Demon: she has passed on (not "past")

Valerie: It would seem that I underestimated him (Sounds better than what you had there.)

Able to wield powerful magic as to summon golem, it would that Valerie is quit [Ok, I copied that down and forgot why, except that it sounds awkward, and "golem" should be "golems."]

At that instance (not "instant")

establish a conclusion (I would say "form a conclusion")

by that of a demon (not "of a demon's" - it should be either "demon's body" or "body of a demon")

Convenient (not "convinient")

fatigue can get the better of us (not "best of us")

trick on you, and (comma)

point to the dead guard or point out the dead guard (but not "point out to the dead guard")

that of a demon (again)

No doubt the demon is watching (re-phrased)

applauds you, but (comma)

O Hero (not Oh)

You ponder (should probably be "you wonder")

You inspect... (change this to "You inspect the corpse lying where the demon's body should have been. It is the corpse of a wizard," or maybe "the wizard" - I wasn't sure if it was Valerie, actually, but I guess not)

change "This would mean" to "This means"

You hear the sounds (remove "can")

spells being cast (not "casted")

Valerie's screams (capitalize)

There are two (not "there's")

with my mother, so (not "meaning")

I was surprised by how much stronger he had become (not "how much he had gotten stronger")

one-way (hyphen)

go awry (not "get awry")

To the contrary (rather than "contradictingly")

he was a bandit, and he raised (comma)

Waves goodbye to you (not "waves you goodbye")

gifted girl, possessing (spelling)

He looks at the ground

Also, there was a little gap in the left middle wall of the room with the two Valeries.

_____

I think the overall story is more important than a few spelling and grammar issues, but you may want to fix them. You've done a wonderful job on this quest. I was admiring your maps, because I'm not very good at making them myself. I liked the various quest choices and had to think back on what had happened in order to make my decision (which may have been the wrong one, but I didn't like Valerie that much anyway, so it was okay).

It makes me want to put a decision like that into part 2 of my quest, hmm...

lumicakery · June 2013

thx for the feedback guys, Ill get to your quests as soon as I can

.

Also, it kinda seems like everyones getting the bad ending >.>, might need to tweak a few things.

casten24 · June 2013

Okay, let's start this off. The story premise and how you pulled it off were pristine. Triggers and the like were done really well. The design of your areas was also done quite well, not too much and not too little. The constant refreshing of the followers, while not ideal (believe me I know how easily they can be defeated... lol), was done the best way possible, I believe. In the end, I gave you 4 stars. Half a star off, because I think GWFs might have quite a bit of trouble on normal (playing as a 52 TR, I used about 5 potions throughout the whole thing, which I think should be the normal amount used [or less] by GWFs in normal mode, so if I'm using that much, they might have more trouble. But then again, that is just a personal standard of mine, so see it for what it's worth. The other half star is for some story (including back-story) issues and quite a bit of unnecessary OOC stuff.

Now, on to the meat. My biggest concern is the over-abundance of OOC. A lot of it (especially the introductory statements) were just re-iterations of what the NPC was already visually doing. This makes most of it completely unnecessary (which in storytelling usually means "take it out", so take it out). Some in particular that I'll point out and that aren't introductory OOC; the scene where the demon chases Valerie into the previous room of the mine, you don't need to say he pushes you aside or that he runs after her, you can easily just despawn the demon you're talking to upon quest completion then spawn in an NPC that "ignores all (to keep the mobs from attacking him)" that's on a one-way patrol past you and into the main room. It'll show the act of him running past the player instead of being told that he runs past the player. However, there were a few instances where I saw that it was required. One prime example of a required bit of OOC is when Picard is checking himself for wounds (still, I'd double check to see if there's something which can be used in place of it... Maybe just switching it to the drunk stagger for a talk pane (dunno if that'd stick a cup in his hands, though), with and "uuurghhh" to represent a vocal effort to stand up, and in the next talk pane steady him, and continue on with something along the lines of, "My legs seem to bear my weight well enough. And as I've always said, 'If you can stand, you can fight.' I'm coming with you.") As for the rest, you'll especially want to try to get rid of anything that references the player. Anything that contains the word "you" followed by some action, is a really big no-no. One prime example (of which you can completely rid yourself), is during the conversation with Valerie. You don't need to tell the players they're looking over her shoulder. Just place the items visually and the players will notice them, if they don't, well, if they were their character, then their character wouldn't notice them, either. Another instance of the 'you's that aren't needed are the ones after the big battle in the town. As soon as the guard's bodies appeared I knew something was up, checking on the body confirmed that something was definitely up. I didn't need to be told that I was feeling something was wrong with the picture in the subsequent conversations. As for the guards' bodies, when you check them refrain from the 'you's, as well. I understand that some may not see that the bodies of the guards as important, so to keep OOC at a minimum, I'd suggest keeping it to the bare minimum... something along the lines of "the street is lined with the bodies of guards and civilians. Not a demonic corpse amongst them," or even more minimalist, "This guard wasn't here a second ago..."

Now, as for the some of the dialogue. There was a bit that I found confusing, when Valerie is discussing how her father summoned a demon, I believe I understood correctly when she said the demon healed her mother only after she was long gone. However the wording makes that unclear and quite confusing. Even then, with the understanding that the demon didn't heal her immediately, how would the demon's bargain be fulfilled if it let her die? In essence, it didn't heal her, and its end of the deal was never fulfilled. Now, if the deal was to rid her of her pain, I could understand the demon not doing anything (or better yet, killing her as soon as the deal was sealed), because I can understand death as a means of removing someone's (or something's) pain. Either way, that's a bit of a hitch in the back story. Another hitch that was present in that same conversation, one of the dialogue options asks if Valerie is planning on killing the demon herself. The makes a gesture as to say, 'no,' then says she's quite capable which implies a 'yes' (this also happens to be an instance of unnecessary OOC, just give her a "agree, slow/fast" animation the player will get that, yes, she plans to kill it by herself). Another hiccup, is after the major battle in town. The way the quest entries are designed, they create an unnecessary, and yet still needed, repeat of dialogue. It'd be better to just have the player talk to one and then the other, instead of either or. However, the main dilemma of the repeat of dialogue comes from the OOC, so if you can find a way to get rid of that, you'll get rid of the problem of repetition.

The second to last thing that didn't quite make sense to me story-wise was the appearance of Valerie's father. He got there extremely quickly and his appearance seems way too sudden to be believable. I understand the desire to show some resolution of the situation between Valerie and her father, but his quick appearance there is quite unrealistic. I'd also try and rewrite his dialogue. It feels forced and because of that, his remorse doesn't come off as believable.

Nevermind, that's the last thing. I was just going over the conversations between the player and the two Valeries and I realized that the clue to which was the fake was revealed in the Spoilers! conversation bit about Picard being fake End Spoilers!. As a side note, though, another instance of unnecessary OOC... I don't need to be told whether I believe that the particular Valerie to which I'm talking is telling the truth. As a player I can determine that myself through what she says.

Anyway, thanks much for the critique. Some of what you pointed out was planned (as the city will be a part of all the chapters in the campaign, so it will become more "bustling" as it grows with time [it's still quite new, but not new enough that scaffolding would still be up, or workers would still be working on the walls/bridge, which is why it seems quite bare... have to save some room for future versions of the town... After the story is complete I can go back and fill in anything I may add in the future if I have room in the final version{i.e. the final chapter}]), some were already pondered over and nixed (the reason for the in-and-out was mainly for realism [where would your first meeting with Sarkis be if it were real life? Where would be the best place to station guards to guard the largest amount of people with the fewest amount of guards {In other words, what's the most secure place and where would you place guards to guard that secure place}?]) and the rest has already been corrected (I've finally been able to pull stuff [such as sound] off the "Special" tab. I hate when that bug pops up, and for some strange reason, that's the second time now, I've had to correct the Battle Wight Commander. Still, thanks for the catch on the Elf). And, so, to draw things to a close, I hope this critique helps to further grow your wordsmithing ability.

ruboilonmycoccyx · June 2013

Will give deception a try sounds cool.

ruboilonmycoccyx · June 2013

Tried out deception, was great! Loved the options! Keep up the good work

lumicakery · June 2013

@casten24 thx for your feedback

. ill look into those story loopholes. As for the OOC, I supposed its kind of my personal thing. I dont really look at the npcs during dialogue. I guess its kind of like reading a book. I like the extra OOC to explain whats happening and for the extra immersion. But ill consider some of your suggestions. As for that lying part, i just wanted to give a 100% guarantee that the person is not lying at that particular point. Cuz there is some lying going on there.

@rubo thx, ill take a look at your quest later on after I do some adjustments

lumicakery · June 2013

@ruboilonmycoccyx (man that name is long), I sent my review to you as a message as I did not see any forum thread from you. Let me know if you didnt receive it.

Atm, I seem to have troubles republishing my quest. Its stuck at currently publishing. So the one available is a bit outdated, but I'd still appreciate if anyone still wants to trade reviews

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casten24 · June 2013

lumicakery wrote: »

As for that lying part, i just wanted to give a 100% guarantee that the person is not lying at that particular point. Cuz there is some lying going on there.

Oh, I know. My point was mainly that it doesn't need to be said that the player believes her, because you do more enough with the actual dialogue (what she's actually saying) to make her believable that you don't need to tell the player that they believe her. In other words, it's OOC that doesn't need to be there at all, because you did the dialogue in those particular conversation points really well. To use your "reading a book" reference, it's like telling the reader she's speaking the truth when you're already showing the truth through dialogue. A common trope in writing is "Show. Don't tell." Heard that enough times from my professors (a point they made often in their teaching; between sharing critiques of the stories each of the students had written) that it's become understood that it's a rule of thumb when writing.

drakesigar · July 2013

When the guards corpses showed up I thought I had it all figured out, but it turns out that was just one element leading to the bigger mystery. The biggest evidence by far was cleverly introduced by gameplay as much as dialogue. It's a nice change of pace to actually want to continue a quest and find out how it ends for once.

dileoth · August 2013

Spoilers incoming!!!!

Just finished this quest and i chose the wrong Valerie after a loong time trying to figure it out. I got some things i cant work out with the story. Right after this run i ran it again to see the "good" ending.

So from what i can work out this is the truth: The demons you fight were actually townspeople disguised by the demon. They were fighting you cause you were with a bandit (Picard) and a demon (Fake Valerie) or possibly cause the demon disguised you all as demons in the eyes of the townspeople. The real Valerie teleported straight from the cave to the last room and has simply waited there. When Picard and Fake Valerie leave you in the middle of town they were discussing their plans or something.

Now let's look at the stories:

- The correct Valerie (on the left side) doesnt really have to be mentioned since she has no reason to lie anyway. The reason i chose her is that she says she was "chased" out of the room in the cave when it was actually the plan for her to run out. She then goes on to compliment the strength of the demon (which would fit if this was the demon and he had a big ego as evil people often do).

- The demon Valerie (on the right side) says she was with you in town. She knows Picard and claims he tried to attack her. When asked about the town she claims demons killed everyone and you killed the demons. Finally when asked about the demon decoy in the other room she says the demon disguised a minion and hid in the last room.

Putting this together and assuming the demons in town were indeed townspeople (but that Valerie doesn't think so) we get this story: You, the real Valerie and the bandit Picard (disguised by the demon as a guard, we assume here that the demon's powers work at long range) go to the town. The guards attack you cause you're with the bandit or because the demon is disguising you as demons in the eyes of the townspeople. The demon is also disguising the townspeople as demons in your eyes (again, assuming his powers work at range). Real Valerie and Picard almost get into a fight when they leave you in the middle of town. Finally when the decoy in the last room is revealed, Valerie isnt there so she doesnt see the truth.

Now i don't see any holes in this second story. It seems just as plausible as the first one which leaves me guessing which one is true. Since i couldn't decide between the stories i looked at the details in the responses and noticed things like "chased out" above which led me to choosing the wrong Valerie

So what did i miss? Where's the hint that's supposed to direct us to choosing the correct Valerie? Or are we supposed to be left guessing? Either way i really enjoyed the experience but this annoys me a bit

dileoth · August 2013

Rewrote above post to make it clearer

Trading Reviews - Deception

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