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Balance Issues PvP/PvE?
vold316
Member Posts: 0 Arc User
I'm not a expert on game design or anything like that; but I have played a lot of games that have PvE and PvP, and from that I have learnt there are 3 ways to make PvE and/or PvP work:
1) Separated Servers: PvP Servers = balance everything for PvP and forget about balancing for PvE; PvE Servers = balance everything for PvE and forget about balancing for PvP.
2) Separated Builds: Classes with 2+ build options, and possibly dual spec (WoW); 1 spec for PvP and 1 spec for PvE. Also the mechanics work differently for PvP and PvE.
3) Team PvP & Team PvE: Balance PvP for Team vs Team and PvE for Team vs Environment; Forget about solo-PvP, and try to balance as much as possible the solo-PvE.
Another option is to focus on PvE and forget about competitive PvP, and keep that only for world pvp in open areas, etc.
Currently in NW, the classes are too linear, they only have 1 paragon path; inside of that path you can choose some passive abilities but they are really not going to make a big difference to have different builds for PvP and PvE; also there is not dual spec. Currently neither of those options are working in NW; so they balance things according to what feels overpowered and underpowered and nerf / buff for PvE or PvP, without solving the real problem.
Option 1 is not good for this game, they have to choose Option 2 or 3 or forget about competitive PvP. :P
Now, you also added that Gauntl... whatever area; where players have to do PvE and then PvP and PvE again; So, the best option would be to add an obvious PvP and PvE build for each class dual spec and gear swaping to change PvP <-> PvE; and then balance everything so that the game is balanced for PvP builds vs PvP builds and PvE builds vs PvE builds vs Environment.
1) Separated Servers: PvP Servers = balance everything for PvP and forget about balancing for PvE; PvE Servers = balance everything for PvE and forget about balancing for PvP.
2) Separated Builds: Classes with 2+ build options, and possibly dual spec (WoW); 1 spec for PvP and 1 spec for PvE. Also the mechanics work differently for PvP and PvE.
3) Team PvP & Team PvE: Balance PvP for Team vs Team and PvE for Team vs Environment; Forget about solo-PvP, and try to balance as much as possible the solo-PvE.
Another option is to focus on PvE and forget about competitive PvP, and keep that only for world pvp in open areas, etc.
Currently in NW, the classes are too linear, they only have 1 paragon path; inside of that path you can choose some passive abilities but they are really not going to make a big difference to have different builds for PvP and PvE; also there is not dual spec. Currently neither of those options are working in NW; so they balance things according to what feels overpowered and underpowered and nerf / buff for PvE or PvP, without solving the real problem.
Option 1 is not good for this game, they have to choose Option 2 or 3 or forget about competitive PvP. :P
Now, you also added that Gauntl... whatever area; where players have to do PvE and then PvP and PvE again; So, the best option would be to add an obvious PvP and PvE build for each class dual spec and gear swaping to change PvP <-> PvE; and then balance everything so that the game is balanced for PvP builds vs PvP builds and PvE builds vs PvE builds vs Environment.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
"The harder the game, the better."
"The harder the game, the better."
Post edited by vold316 on
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And if you like PvE and PvP, and expect each to have a decent amount of balance, then you can go play another game? What?
"The harder the game, the better."
So far every class is effective in both PVP and PVE , there are no overpowering nor underpowering .
It is all about team composition, gears, and the ability to use your hands.
Because otherwise it will never be very balanced and there will be QQ everywhere, some people are suggesting duels for PvP... if that happens it will never be balanced as it is.
TBH, I'd prefer another option for this game, where PvP and PvE could be balanced around class roles (Leader, Striker, Defender, Controller). That way it would be much better to balance everything.
"The harder the game, the better."
IT IS balanced. The people are QQing because they enter PVP with green gears /Crappy lvl up gears and expect to deal decent damage VS a fully equipped T2 player.
I'm a TR with 11.3K Gear Score and i can tell you that some GF/GWF/CW can kill me when they execute their abilities well.
The QQing on PVE, is not because of the classes. It is because of the random kicking on last boss/rewards and whatsoever.
So you are simply suggesting solutions to problem that doesn't even exist.. however, Making a GS Que system for PVP ( just like the one for dungeon) can solve the QQing issues. Since you will be able to fight people with corresponding gearing.
...
...
Great, a game, just gonna change into my T2 set.
"Your gear score is too high for this match"
"Removing player from map"
I have a better idea, how about you stick with what you do best, but this isn't it.
You didn't mention that a DC could kill you if he/she executed DC abilities well...
But I'm sure that's an oversight since you're already on record for saying no class is underpowered in PvP.
1. The mobs have a lot more HP than players -> DPS classes greatly advantaged
2. Dodge is really strong in PvP -> non dodge classes are greatly disadvantaged
3. Knock back are way to powerful -> CC should not make dmg in PvP or could be avoid by any class
4. CC are stackable -> Rogue and wizard are dominating and the cleric is not that bad
5. According to point 1, the stuff PvE stuff for DPS classes is more efficient in PvP -> DPS classes greatly advantaged
6. No possibility to nullify a distance DPS, so pure CC are kite like mobs ->
Surprisingly, if you make the matrix class / points, most of the complains addressed to rogue / wizard are pretty natural.
And that, without speaking about specific spell of any class or any strange behaviour.
For people like me, that want to have fun during the time played, PvP is not an option any more ...
If the aim is to make like SWTOR is on the right way to success... otherwise there is a lot to do to make it enjoyable even for pick up player that don't want to connect to mubble / TS.
PS: And please consider PvP with more than 5 players on each side or call it Arena ... it's not a shame and player will know are they are really facing.
1- DPS arent advantaged since you said yourself " mobs have too much HP" so these mobs needs to be controlled and DC needs to heal that "DPS" else he will die.
2- Seriously? non dodge classes? do you mean GWF and GF? GWF has HUGE regeneration skill that makes him able to stand there and take all the hits. For GF he has his freaking shield , why on earth would he need to have a dodge?.
3- Ok , that's HAMSTER. No damage CC? it is like making CW and GF a dummy. CC is already avoidable of you know how to use your hands...
4- Rogue has no stacking CC. CW's CC is stackable because that's what he does... he is called "CONTROL" wizard for a reason.other classes can avoid it tho , GF can absorb so much damage with the shield and GWF's enraging makes him immune to it, needless to say about rogue's impossible to catch. Even Clerics has a CC skill, every class got CC to help them avoid damage.
5- Well duh? they do the DPSing? so they need to have "stuff" for damaging?
6- Ranged DPS? the heck that is? CW isn't a DPS he is a stunlocker-control class...and yes he can kite Melee Classes , but still killable.
You sound like very very very inexperienced with classes nor PvP mechanics.
and yes there is a more than 5 vs 5 PvP called GauntlGrym which is being fixed now.
That' some kind of arena.
Not sure that's the purpose of this kind of casual game where respecialization is quite expensive and PvP quite meaningless.
And as far as most of the players won't make full team PvP, having this kind of requirement will quickly make them stop.
But as you said, I'm "very very very inexperienced with classes nor PvP mechanics" and my experience is certainly not that interesting for this beta game.