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Great Weapon Fighters - what plagues them and how to cure it
elpaleniozord01
Member, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 28 Arc User
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Since the beginning Great Weapon Fighters are struggling with a lot of problems. While certainly last balance patch improved our gameplay significantly approach of it didnt fixed any of GWFs issues and created new ones, such as ridiculously overpowered Sentinel spec in PvP.
PvP aside.
The biggest problem for us is lack of area in which we excel and we cannot do any job optimally. I know, i know, were doing highest dps when it comes to heavy AoE. Surely it feels good seeing yourself topping damage done, but whats the point of it? The only difference it makes is trash clearing speed(and A LOT of them can be skipped anyway).
During boss fights any class can outperform a GWF. Rogues just deal MUCH higher damage against single targets and we are usually forced to go for the boss. Wizzards can kill adds faster than us by throwing them off ledges and if thats impossible they just CC them all day negating their presence anyway. Guardians are pretty much on the same spot but they can actually tank, taking off a lot of burden from DCs and CWs. Clerics are out of discussion.
Being subpar to every other class isnt fun, but achieving perfect balance simply isnt possible. Said that, im fine with being master of none as long as i can be jack of all trades. However right its more beneficial to bring second CW/TR/DC over GWF. What im asking for is simply an option to specialize, allowing us to fulfill a single role effecively(note that other classes still would be better at it.
Right now paragon paths are pretty much messed up, random things mixed together for no particular reason, serving no purpose. I suggest changing them so they can match their description:
The Instigator combines cunning and strength to harnesses the ferocity of battle into precision attacks and tactical maneuvers.
Utility spec - would allow us to take on adds during encounters by stunning, knocking and moving them around in similar fashion like CW do.
The Destroyer is a torrent of unfettered rage and anger that deals a crushing amount of damage no foe is likely to survive.
Well if thats how Criptic would describe GWF dps i wonder how they call TRs. Anyway, Destroyer spec should be pure damage dealer path, squishy killing machine thats only utility is killing things faster.
The Sentinel uses innate strength to entice the aggression of monster and mitigate blows that would otherwise devastate allies.
Criptic already made some changes to turn it into tanking spec and i fully approve. Unfortunately due to bad scaling and threat generation, sentinels still cannot tank and are borderline op in PvP
To achieve these goal i would like to see some tweaks to our powers and paragon paths overhaul that would complement them.
Here are some proposed changes, which i believe would improve game quality
Main problem concerns not only us but other classes as well(although im not sure to what extend). Its bad scaling system.
Damage of powers is based almost solely on weapons damage while power is neglectable, simple fix would be reducing damage of everything with power scaling improvement to compensate dmg loss for dps and bring tanks in line so they cant stack pure survivability while still doing heavy dmg(Tenebrous stacking must go away as well).
Regarding GWF changes i would like to see, is giving each path set of defining abilities. Here are some suggestions for:
Instigator - the idea is to turn him into warrior who bring utility to party, can control multiple enemies at a time while still doing some dmg, note that GWF being melee is much riskier to handle adds
At-Wills:
Sure Strike - paragon feat to apply debuff increasing damage taken from all party members by the target
Wicked Strike - paragon feat which adds a stacking slow to enemies hit
Encounters:
Come and Get it - leave it as it is, but change an paragon feat to add some immobilization for brief moment. Would be great for peeling enemies off allies and setting up knockoffs and cc chains.
Mighty Leap/Not So Fast - fine as it is, additional cc would be nice but not needed
Roar - doesnt require changing
Dailies:
Savage advance - remove stun component and turn charge into AoE knockback, this allow us to reliably throw multiple enemies off ledges, instead of circle knockback(which isnt reliable from point blank) i would like to see straight vector knockback
Avalange of steel - reducing time in air and incresing prone duration, would allow us to cc targets when theres no chasm to dispatch adds
Feats:
Each is fine depending on situation
Destroyer - changes are aimed to increase single target dps without making it insane in PvP, thus relying heavy on At-Wills
At-Wills:
Sure strike - bread and butter for single target dps, would have nice synergy with Battle Fury
Reaping Strike - remove target cap so it can hit all enemies caught in it and its good to go(preferably by making it part of Destroyer's Purpose)
Encounters:
Battle Fury - atm its terrible, bonus AP generation and damage increase alone isnt good enough. Personally i would like to see it reduce Encounters cooldowns on At-Wills attack, granting high reduction on single target due to fast procs of Sure Strikes and small on Reaping Strikes. Also remove cast time so it can be used when attacking as well as moving.
Indomitable Battle Strike - doesnt require any change
Roar - same as above,
Dailies:
Slam - only daily which allows us to attack while its performed resulting in straight DPS increase, doesnt need any change
Crescendo - add paragon feat(preferably Battle Awarness) that leaves debuff on target increasing dmg done by GWF for few seconds
Feats:
Weapon Master - our best dmg oriented feat, doesnt require any change
Destroyer(duh) - single target option, make it proc on single targets, having to spend 5 points for 25% chance sucks
Steel Blitz - aoe option, good as it is
Sentinel
Feats:
Steel Defense - change it completely into flat increase of threat by lets say 20+5%/per rank, add paragon feat to increase it further so non speced GWFs would have much harder time trying to get aggro, tbh threat increase is the only thing Sentinel path needs
Bravery - good as it is
At-Wills:
Weapon Master's Strike - last patch turned it into great tanking ability, should remain that way, good job Cryptic
Sure Strike - same as above
Encounters:
Daring Shout - need to cause more threat, otherwise its good
Punishing Charge - grants mobility needed for grabbing multiple enemies and dodging/kiting when needed, i would add paragon feat so it deal increased damage to Marked targets, giving it synergy with Daring Shout and PUNISHES enemies for not attacking you
Restoring Strike - single target option, good dmg, a bit of sustain, no changes needed
Mighty Leap - AoE option, paragon feat(low tier so its accessible by others) to add prone effect for saving allies and interrupts also more mobility
Dailies:
Spinning Strike - make it reflects attacks against you into your enemies, with this Spinning Strike would deal higher damage(and thus higher threat) when tanking
Slam - remains as it is(better for drawing threat from allies)
Other than that, Paragon Paths would require a lot of changes, not only to balance them out but give each specialization distinctive feel.
With those we could shine in area of our specialization and still be able to handle other jobs but less proficiently. I intentionally avoided giving any exact numbers on damage/cooldowns/durations/etc as ideas above arent meant to be any buffs/nerfs but more of a direction GWF class aim.
Post edited by elpaleniozord01 on
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Comments
Reaping strike is NOT fine, like you insisted. It needs some adjustments. 1) at least half a second off it's charge time is mandatory; it's just not worth using for how long it takes to charge 2) first reaping strike after using unstoppable doesn't receive any speed buff, this needs to be fixed as it makes unstoppable do nothing for reaping strike (also making the charge sounds and charge bar in sync under unstoppable would be nice). and 3) executioner's style (bonus damage from reaping strike on single targets) needs a complete re-work. Why does an AoE class, AND an AoE ability, receive a damage bonus for SINGLE TARGET hits? Makes no sense. You will almost never be hitting reaping strike on single targets in a dungeon, and most likely if you are, you're playing the class wrong.
With these changes to reaping strike, the destroyer tree would be exactly where it's suppose to be. But even that won't make GWFs very efficient in dungeons; the only way to achieve this, is to completely take away knocking adds off edges in dungeons, more specifically boss fights.
Outside of knocking stuff off ledges, which we need less of not more, I am perfectly content with the spec. I haven't been rejected based on my spec yet since patch unless group already has a GWF, which pretty much every group in guild does.
Lol, GWFs do NOT keep up with TRs in single target damage. If this is the case, it's because whatever TRs you're playing with completely suck, not because destroyer is viable for single target.
I'm not saying destroyer completely sucks, I'm personally running destroyer because I find it more fun than instigator, and 9/10 #1 in dps, but fact is, instigator provides a substantially higher dps, simply by spamming 1 button (wicked strike). Also, fact is, reaping strike incredibly sucks and is not worth using in it's current state unless the 3 things I addressed above are looked at.
Yeah I just think your one of those people that won't be happy till you can out dps anyone by standing next to a mob and looking pretty.
As for Reaping Strike, i believe its more of a scaling issue, which should be 1st thing addressed by devs. Right now every ability has same power-to-damage ratio(which is hardly perceptible), higher dmg of RS should come from better than other At-Wills correlation with power instead of just higher baseline.
Honestly most balance issues, with other classes as well could be fixed by a simple change of scaling system.
Yes, actually, they do. As elpaleniozord said, all they have to do is hold down the wicked strike button with a WMS every now and then and their dmg sky rockets.
Also, whats with your sassy comment there? The only thing I'm asking for is a buff/changes to reaping strike... which is needed in the first place. DERP.