GWF - T2 Destroyer Setup (RS Build)

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• spacejew Member Posts: 1,044 Bounty Hunter

  June 2013 edited June 2013

  Okay, so now that you know what feats I use I can get into the more important stuff. Really, feats are just a baseline of play that work into your rotations, and what makes the feat setup work is how you exploit your Encounters to pair with it. I know, I know. Obvious right? Maybe, maybe not. There's a big change in playstyle demands when you hit T2. What worked for me in T1 did not work very well in T2, but what works for me in T2 also works in T1. Some of this only comes together with more Recovery, and T1/T2 set bonuses will change things even more. I like the T1 Berserker set, but you don't need it to make the class work. It's just a big, big improvement over how it works otherwise.
  
  Anyway, here's my standard loudout. I'll switch out various at-wills but largely I stick to the following in 90% of T2 content.
  
  
  Passives:
  Destroyer
  Weapon Master
  
  At-Will:
  Weapon Master Strike
  Reaping Strike
  
  Encounters:
  Flourish
  IBS
  Mighty Leap
  
  Dailies:
  Slam
  Crescendo (Or Savage Advance for CD bonus on unknockable bosses.)
  
  The key to this is how you execute your attacks. It's all about timing, you can use the 'right' Encounters but if you aren't using them at the right times you are going to suck. That's true with any class, believe it or not, but there it is. Timing is what separates a good player from a player that gets berated by the whole team before they break up. At least if you screw up your rotation as a GWF the entire group doesn't wipe, which can't really be said if you're the CW or DC.
  
  Basically this all stems from the changes in Mighty Leap. The added mobility paired with a short 'invulnerable' window makes GWF so very much more playable. It's also pretty necessary for a melee only character as Dash is basically HAMSTER when compared to the 'dodge' classes.
  
  Combo Blending (Or Molding)
  
  This is the #1 skill for a GWF to learn if you intend on being DPS as GWF. It's not 'dash canceling', that's a different animal and a different setup. I don't use it, and I don't like it, but if you dash cancel and that works for you great. It's probably a much more valid technique for Instigator, but I wouldn't know. I'm not an Instigator, I'm a Destroyer.
  
  Here's how it works. Each animation has a start and a finish with the damage usually occurring somewhere in the middle. I'll use WMS and Reaping Strike as an example. WMS has two parts, the first swing and the phantom swing. You can execute your encounters just after the first swing of WMS, and just before the phantom swing, and your encounter and the second swing of WMS will occur at basically the same time. This allows you to 'weave' your Encounters in with WMS so that you're doing both AoE and single target at the same time.
  
  For Reaping Strike it's a little more tricky, but not by much. Basically any part of the Reaping Strike animation past the point where it does damage can be 'cut off' and replaced with a new attack such as Flourish. This does not involve using Dash, it's just a matter of timing your Encounters to occur almost simultaneously. (Basically, hit the Encounter button you wish to use while your current attack is still animating. Specifically, after it's applied it's damage.)
  
  You can actually do more burst damage than a rogue if you're timing your rotation well. The downside is if you don't time it well your encounter might do zero damage but still activate the cooldown. So it's really a fine line of doing it well and doing nothing at all. I suggest playing around in the Dummy room to perfect your timing, it will pay off in the end.
  
  I've found that the following works well after you get the timing down.
  
  > indicates an animation cancel.
  - indicates that you should allow the animation to finish.
  
  WMS > Flourish - WMS > Reaping Strike > IBS - WMS
  
  There are plenty of other good combinations that do better single-target damage while molding combos together, but I like this one for more AoE thrown in.
  
  If you have a boss fight where you know you won't need a Dodge, you can load out a little differently.
  
  WMS > Reaping Strike > Flourish > Restoring Srike > IBS - Reaping Strike > WMS
  
  Why Mighty Leap?
  
  Mighty Leap allows the GWF to always have Combat Advantage by leaping behind targets the GF has aggro on. It also allows the GWF to ignore circles when outside of Unstoppable. Lastly, it gives good mobility and does damage. Since you're a Destroyer, it also builds Determination and can apply SotS. It's probably target capped at 5, but even with the cap it builds a goodly amount of Determination if you hit the cap targets. Once you learn to execute Mighty Leap as both an offensive and defensive skill, you'll love it. Feating into this ability is what made me regain hope that GWF can be useful. It's more facetime which equals more damage for melee.
  
  I feel this deserved it's own section because it's really that good of a change. It's night and day using this ability and not using this ability. You can use it to do damage, build determination, dodge, and close distance. If you jump right where your standing you can use it to do damage while canceling the animation on Reaping Strike or any other attack with decent timing. It takes advantage of SotS debuffs and WMS debuffs just like any other Encounter which helps make up for it's crappy base damage. Also, it can crit for a darn good amount once your debuffs are rolling. (Often 5k+ for me to 5 targets.) You can even use it while Unstoppable for yet another 10% bonus to damage.
  
  Meta Thoughts
  
  Did you know WMS applies two stacks of SotS per activation? Each of it's two attacks can apply the debuff, making WMS your go-to for clearing trash add's and for debuffing single-targets. This is especially true since WMS has the highest target cap limit of any GWF at-will. Spam WMS three or four times and all the worthless add's are dead.
  
  While using WMS, hold down a side-step movement key. No dash is required but hell if you want I suppose go for it. Either way, the net result is that you reangle your WMS second-hit AoE. This is most effective when there are a metric ton of add's before your CW is able to pop their Singularity.
  
  When your CW has Singularity going, position yourself for an IBS while debuffing the gathering add's with WMS. If Slam is up, pop it as the slow helps Singularity gather the add's into a tight cluster faster for a knock off a cliff while doing damage to anything that might get missed by the knock. It also helps keep them in position for another follow up Singularity or Repel.
  
  Against larger, CC immune targets you would want to spam WMS a few times to get your debuffs going then follow up with an Unstoppable run through your Encounter rotation while canceling. You should be able to fit all of them into one Unstoppable, although if you're combo blending be careful and watch for your damage numbers not the animation itself. After your attack has finished doing damage, blend in another attack instantly.
  
  Do not cancel out of IBS or you might lose both your damage and the marks. Practice makes perfect on this one.
  
  Mighty Leap is situational but should not leave your bar. Learn when you need to save it for a dodge, and when you can use it to either cancel an animation or jump on debuffed add's. It's all about the fight with this Encounter, but it's good for all of them.
  
  Savage Advance is quite useful in lots of situations, but know when to use it and when not to. It does more harm than good if you can't use this ability well. It also stacks very nicely with the T1 Berserker set to get your cool downs absurdly low.
  
  Reaping Strike is actually at it's best outside of Unstoppable. The debuff to at-will damage is very noticible on your RS crits. I use Reaping Strike to apply selective burst damage, cut down stronger add's after the trash is gone, and most importantly to build Determination. Roar is great for AP, but it's a pretty crappy otherwise. The knock is pathetic, just enough to screw your AoE on WMS, and the determination gain is good enough but the damage is not. Situationally Roar is useful for AP gain, but I find that it's counter-productive to how I play most of the time. I'd rather use another decent Encounter and have Reaping Strike as an at-will.
  
  Reaping Strike builds a metric ton of Determination. Both through dealing damage, and by increasing the determination you gain from being hit. No, you don't want to be hit but since you can't really help it you might as well pop Unstoppable. I am Unstoppable for so much more of a dungeon run than any GWF I've paired with it's unreal. I don't know how fast other Paragons build Determination, but if you're a Destroyer it's pretty much an instant Unstoppable pop after one Reaping Strike. Even a trash minion pinging on you will result in super inflated Determination.
  
  Mighty Leap, when you use it on add's you've debuffed, builds a ton of Determination as well. If you're close to Unstoppable but not quite there, and you see a red circle land on you, Leap and hit Unstoppable. If you're Unstoppable, and you see a boss attack that must be dodged, Leap. You can leap on top of where you're standing to deal damage and avoid damage. In fights like GWD Mighty Leap is a necessity. You must have it on your bar now.
  
  Flourish is excellent damage on debuffed add's. (Notice how I keep talking about using Encounters after your debuffs? This is very vital.) The interrupt is also useful when taking out various add's that are not CC immune but need interrupting. I use it because it doesn't scatter, interrupts, and does 1/4 of an elite add's health in damage after my buff/debuff stacks are going.
  
  Savage Advance actually has a pretty absurd range. You can Mighty Leap away from a target into a group of add's chasing your cleric, then Savage Advance back onto the boss. This also works as a pretty decent one-two combo for dodging in boss fights that require a lot of movement.
  
  
  Additional Power Choices in Next Section!

  MoF/Thaum CW SS/Thaum CW IV/Protector GF SW/Combat HR SM/Destroyer GWF WK/Executioner TR DO/Faithful DC

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• spacejew Member Posts: 1,044 Bounty Hunter

  June 2013 edited June 2013

  Other Powers
  
  Other than the damage rotation in the second post, there are still other Powers that can be useful in some situations. This is by no means comprehensive, other people will have different takes on if an ability meets their playstyle needs. These are more like guidelines, rather than actual rules. I know we're not pirates, but it still applies.
  
  Green = Must-Have
  Yellow = Often Useful
  Red = Very Infrequently Useful

  ---

  Sure Strike
  
  It's useful when you want to do damage to something, but don't want to do damage to anything around that something. This pretty much limits it to very specific portions of specific boss fights. I honestly only use this in maybe two or three boss fights total, and even then I find that I can just use Savage Advance to rid myself of add's just before a Reaping Strike. It's all about timing, as I say in the OP. The better I get at SA the less I use Sure Strike, even in T2. I do think that might change after I put Plaguefire into my weapons. If you have end game enchants I'd rate Sure Strike a solid yellow.
  
  Wicked Strikes
  
  I don't even have this power anymore. If I ever want to play Instigator, that will change, but I've found that Weapon Master Strike is more beneficial for AoE in almost any situation for a Destroyer. It's useful while leveling if you're looking for an alternative to Reaping Strike, but once you decide to go one way or the other there isn't much reason to have it. Weapon Master Strike applies more SotS stacks faster, and once you have the stacks WMS still does pretty decent damage when you're weaving in Encounters. Wicked Strike doesn't seem as mutable in weaving as RS or WMS, so I bailed on it when I realized I hadn't even used it in days.
  
  Restoring Strike
  
  Also cancels really well with other abilities, including Reaping Strike. The heal is ok if you crit on a debuffed target, and the quick cast is nice for mobile fights. I like the interrupt on Flourish more, but Restoring Strike executes faster. For GWD I generally put this in place of Flourish as interrupt isn't really needed on anything during the end fight. It does slightly less damage, but sometimes speed counts.
  
  Not So Fast
  
  I like this ability, but it's fallen off in usefulness now that Mighty Leap is buffed. Sure the single target damage was buffed a little, but even then it's pretty underwhelming. I still have this at three ranks because it cancels really well after a Reaping Strike. The slow isn't terribly useful as utility, and the damage isn't really 'wow', but it does come in useful occasionally. (Like being paired with Come and Get It to gather stragglers that a CW misses in their knocks.)
  
  Roar
  
  I like Roar well enough, but it's just not for me. I know a lot of people use it to drive their Determination which might actually be a requirement if you aren't using Reaping Strike or are not a Destroyer build in general. Roar, for a Destroyer and more specifically a Reaping Strike Destroyer, falls low on my list of attacks. Roar's AoE and general damage are awful. Not as bad as IBS, but at least IBS does damage. If you need to choose between Roar and Reaping Strike to drive Determination, I choose Reaping Strike. Better AoE, better single target, lower cool down. In all fairness, Roar does give a lot of AP so it can be a solid pick if you don't mind the AoE. I've upped the rating to reflect that.
  
  Takedown
  
  I like the idea of Takedown, but since I don't PvP and I want to concentrate on damage this is something I never use. I only have it because I might PvP someday and I have points to spare.
  
  Come and Get It
  
  Useful if you find yourself getting an itch to off-tank. Otherwise it's only useful for pulling add's off ledges in very specific parts of very specific maps. It might be more useful if we could have four Encounters, but since we aren't mages and our entire feat tree is centered around Encounter damage this will very, very rarely be on your bar. In T1 when you're playing with really terrible Mages or GF this can be a god send.
  
  Punishing Charge
  
  Useful if you have every fight memorized and for some reason still need three back-to-back dodges. Mighty Leap surpasses this by miles, but in all fairness I was playing around with mobility builds and felt this was more useful than, say, Daring Shout which doesn't synergize with a Destroyer layout at all.
  
  Battle Fury
  
  Good stamina gain in a class that doesn't need their Stamina very often. The thing holding this back is that the damage buff seems rather smallish, is very short lived, and Stamina hasn't been a problem for me since I started using Mighty Leap. If you find yourself in a foot race, Battle Fury will let you run longer than anyone. (Not hard, since no one else can run. GF will still beat you with their speed buff though.)
  
  
  
  Dailies
  
  I should mention that I frequently change out my 'off hand' Daily. Slam is always on my bar, but the second Daily I change out depending on the boss or with a particular team makeup. I also switch out Encounters and even at-wills less frequently but there are occasions where something that isn't normally useful becomes useful.
  
  I should also mention that I have all the Dailies. I've found that each of them have their use, more so than the GWF selection of Encounters. I'll go into when and how I use them below, along with options if you want to skip them for more Encounters.
  
  Spinning Strike
  
  Yeah yeah, I know. It's pretty terrible. I've had some success using this as a pull tool to bring add's to the group when knocking add's off specific locations though. The speed boost is ok, the high crit rating of the build helps make the damage a smidge better, but really the added survivability on a Destroyer for add pulling is pretty useful as a one-off tool. This isn't going to be in your Daily slot often, but as a specific item in your belt for being useful in more situations it's not the worst you could do.
  
  Avalanche of Steel
  
  If you hate Spinning Strike than this one is probably for you. I'm really on the fence between them myself considering that Avalanche of Steel doesn't appear to have any particular target cap, has a huge AoE, and knocks anything that isn't CC immune on it's rear. Arguably much more useful in T2 if you can time it correctly with the downtime in your CW's Arcane Singularity. If you want to help that AS gather up the HAMSTER faster, knock them on their tail while doing large burst damage. The biggest drawback to this Daily is that by the time it actually hits all your debuffs are gone, and all of your stacks are gone, which ultimately reduces the damage it could be capable of. That, and the huge AoE is actually a bad thing in some situations. You could go either way, and to be honest I really recommend taking this one over Spinning Strike the more I think about it. You might never use either of them, but you can't completely skip either of them either.
  
  Slam
  
  Of course. Shouldn't need more explanation, but it's not only buffed in the feat tree to become a 'power up' ability but is also decent utility with it's slow. The slow lets Astral Singularity gather faster, does good damage, and buff's your at-wills and crit damage at the same time. I use it when it's up unless there's a specific fight that I know I'll want it on coming up.
  
  Savage Advance
  
  I don't particularly like this ability for a lot of reasons. Namely, you can't use it to throw add's off ledges without killing yourself and the knockback on both the target and the add's around the target are annoying. Those effects can be used to you advantage. The real use for this ability is if you're on boss duty. They're immune to knock, you don't want the add's too close while using Reaping Strike for single-target, and it benefits your Encounter cool downs with the feats you've chosen. Outside of boss fights or dungeons where there are big, unknockable adds I use Crescendo, but to be honest with this build I'm just leaving SA on my bar since Slam feeds into my single-target rotation as well and I'm smart enough to knock things into walls.
  
  Crescendo
  
  Great while clearing, especially on certain add's that draw in the entire team. It's a fast, high damage interrupt that doesn't screw your team like Savage Advance can. I use this up until boss fights as my single-target most of the time, and it's a very solid pick even for boss DPS. Savage Advance only pulls ahead when you have Battle Awareness and you're facing a foe who is immune to knock

  MoF/Thaum CW SS/Thaum CW IV/Protector GF SW/Combat HR SM/Destroyer GWF WK/Executioner TR DO/Faithful DC

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• chudovishye Member Posts: 0 Arc User

  June 2013 edited June 2013

  What powers you using my man if you don't mind saying? Just curious.

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• ioannides5 Member, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 0 Arc User

  June 2013 edited June 2013

  Here's my 2 cents: using executioner's style (25% more single target damage with reaping strike), is the most absolutely useless waste of points. 1) the actual gains from it are situational; only happen on single target hits, and 2) How often do you single target hit someone in a dungeon as a GWF? If it's more then 10% of your combat time in a dungeon, you're doing something wrong. In saying this, executioner's style completely goes against what a GWF should be doing/does.
  
  Just some friendly advice: take your 5 points u spent in executioner's style, and put them into deep gash. Deep gash is 100x more useful, and provides a pretty good damage increase STEADILY throughout your entire dungeon runs. Oh, and it's damage can be AoE (applied on multiple targets), which is what GWFs are intended for. Also, I would use roar over mighty leap. You don't need the dodge mechanic in leap, just time your sprints properly. A properly placed roar basically instantly fills your determination, THAT is a true encounter which should never leave your action bar (PvE wise).
  
  P.s. I'm also a destroyer specced GWF, 1 of the very few left due to instigator being far better damage wise, and also use reaping strike. Although I personally think the ability needs some buffs/reworks, especially executioner's style, I still use it just because I like the way it functions.

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• asdfasdfgf Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users Posts: 237 Bounty Hunter

  June 2013 edited June 2013

  I regret to inform you, but as of this current patch Sure Strike out dps's Reaping Strike. Until Reaping Strike is adjusted, I recommend putting those 5 points in Deep Gash and use Sure Strike for bosses.
  
  With that being said, I've yet to be out-dps'd by a Instigator. IJS.

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• kolatmaster Member Posts: 3,111 Arc User

  June 2013 edited June 2013

  I enjoyed the read OP... And though I am not a fan of the Destroyer spec as yet it was great so see a well thought out post and explanation from a different perspective. Thanks! :cool:

  

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• spacejew Member Posts: 1,044 Bounty Hunter

  June 2013 edited June 2013

  @ioannides5:
  
  I have no idea what you're talking about. Deep Gash is something I've tested, extensively, and yes it looks good on a parse. In game, it doesn't work out. It's pad damage. Even with 3333 Power it ticks for 80 something per tick. That means it takes Deep Gash roughly 5-10 seconds to equal the damage of one single solitary Weapon Master Strike which hits 10 targets. Even combined together it's completely unnoticible damage. The add's health doesn't even move when it's ticking. All the debuffs you're stacking don't seem to apply to Deep Gash either. It's always a flat 15% of your power over five seconds. You can simply observe the bleed effect and equally you can observe the uselessness of the bleed effect. If something has 20k HP, is 80 damage a second on your only DoT worthwhile? I'd say not.
  
  If executioners strike is situationally useful, than Deep Gash is universally useless to a build centered on encounter damage dealing.
  
  @ asdfasdfgf:
  
  So what you're telling me is that if Sure Strike crits on all four of it's attacks it does 13k damage? Because that's what Reaping Strike does for me single-target without any outside buff's at all. That's not even including the buff it gets when Slam is active. Then it hits 14-15k per crit. I didn't see anything like that level of performance from Sure Strike, but I can see how Sure Strike is super if you've paid 160$ for a Greater Plaguefire Enchant. I don't even say this ironically or sarcastically, it is what it is. Maybe that isn't what you're talking about at all, but that's the only time I have literally ever seen Sure Strike out perform my setup. And yes, it was a Greater enchant.
  
  If thats not what you're talking about would you mind shedding some light, because I tested Sure Strike post and pre patch and while it's certainly a lot more viable now it was HAMSTER before. And even before it got a 10% buff it was out performing anything when combined with certain enchants that provide stacking debuffs.
  
  If you have that kind of setup, T2 is on farm mode for you anyway. For that matter, Castle Never is likely on farm mode for you too.
  
  @chudovishye:
  
  A lot has changed since the last time I posted a build. I was interrupted in the middle of posting my sections, but they are all listed now. This is, of course, an entirely PvE perspective by the way ^_-

  MoF/Thaum CW SS/Thaum CW IV/Protector GF SW/Combat HR SM/Destroyer GWF WK/Executioner TR DO/Faithful DC

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• spacejew Member Posts: 1,044 Bounty Hunter

  June 2013 edited June 2013

  Shameless bump. Don't finish lengthy posts at 4am I guess.

  MoF/Thaum CW SS/Thaum CW IV/Protector GF SW/Combat HR SM/Destroyer GWF WK/Executioner TR DO/Faithful DC

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• kojimei1212 Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 3 Arc User

  June 2013 edited June 2013

  Ahh spacejew. Loved ur post about fixing dungeons, never been with u on reaping strike for real world gameplay application. I don't think RS would beat SS standing next to a single dummy, maybe with a vorpal enchant with 5/5 executioner, but in reality those 5 pts are wasted if not in deep gash for instancing where 90+% of ur dmg is against trash, just my opinion. Like I said I agreed whole heartedly about instance fixing in stead of just boosting dmg by 10-20%.
  Anyways I stopped playing a couple weeks ago, my gwf had everything and only beat by my TR buddy in dps in any instance prepatch. But why are u guys still playing that flash in the pan game? Why am I still checking the forums? Sad, rift is f2p now respecs are free, "cash items" are 1/10th the cost of NW and not necessary.

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• spacejew Member Posts: 1,044 Bounty Hunter

  June 2013 edited June 2013

  kojimei1212 wrote: »

  Ahh spacejew. Loved ur post about fixing dungeons, never been with u on reaping strike for real world gameplay application. I don't think RS would beat SS standing next to a single dummy, maybe with a vorpal enchant with 5/5 executioner, but in reality those 5 pts are wasted if not in deep gash for instancing where 90+% of ur dmg is against trash, just my opinion. Like I said I agreed whole heartedly about instance fixing in stead of just boosting dmg by 10-20%.
  Anyways I stopped playing a couple weeks ago, my gwf had everything and only beat by my TR buddy in dps in any instance prepatch. But why are u guys still playing that flash in the pan game? Why am I still checking the forums? Sad, rift is f2p now respecs are free, "cash items" are 1/10th the cost of NW and not necessary.

  
  Reaping Strike does out perform Sure Strike on one target if you have the feat. Sure Strike looks faster, but it isn't. It's also harder to combo mold, and harder to weave in with WMS. People like it because they can't understand more than one button, or have end game enchants and can just hold one button to win. That's just how it is.
  
  On trash, or really on anything, Deep Gash is so useless. I have no idea why people keep harping on it. I parsed myself in T2 with and without Deep Gash. It. Is. Garbage. People will say that power scales terribly and in the very next breath try and sell Deep Gash. I know it looks good in a parse. If you hit 100 mobs with an attack that does 1 damage you did 100 damage, but in reality it didn't do anything important. It's a DoT so it can't crit, does a flat 15% of your power for a tick which results in about 80-100 damage a tick on add's that have thousands of HP, and when compared to another 2-3k damage per hit on my Encounters it's just utter, utter garbage. On an Instigator that has their cap it's another 50% power while they aren't getting hit, which up's the bleed. The 25% Power bonus on Slam does up the bleed. By about 20 damage a tick. Again, on add's with thousands of HP.
  
  Deep Gash should never be a part of your Destroyer build. Destroyers don't do DoT's, Destroyer's cut sucka's in half. If you want to make things bleed, go roll a TR. That's their job. I make things splatter. There's a difference.

  MoF/Thaum CW SS/Thaum CW IV/Protector GF SW/Combat HR SM/Destroyer GWF WK/Executioner TR DO/Faithful DC

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• ssimeone79 Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users Posts: 2 Arc User

  June 2013 edited June 2013

  A simple question. In your ability weaving flow you include IBS, Flourish, and Restoring strike. But at the same time you repeatedly say that mighty leap should never leave your bar... am I missing something here?
  
  * answered this myself. It is late, read over it one more time to make sure I wasn't missing something. Saw the "if" no dodge is needed!! Cleared up!

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