Looking for advice

kmdave · June 2013

Dead fellow Clerics,

before starting to complain I want to ask you for some advice.

I main the Cleric and it was a lot of fun. For PvE I am getting along pretty well I'd say.

But in PvP I feel so absolutely useless after the patch.

Since being a cleric puts the mark directly onto you, I get jumped by every enemy. I have no way to do something about CC. If you say stay in the back: you know that it is not that easy.

Since I think of myself as a healer I feel pretty much gimped nowadays. I'm not even able to go 1 on 1 with any other class to at least hold a point of our team till reinforcements arrive. AS can't heal me anymore in a useful way, most of the times I can't even hit anyone with my skills since GF's block, GWF's are not impressed with any CC at all, CW's strangle me, throw me around and so on and Rogues just pop their smokebomb, go invis and pretty much tear you apart.

I am looking for a build which is viable for PvE and PvP.

Is there anything like that out there? A video would be nice too, or if you'd accompany me to a round of PvP and give me tips.

Thanks in advance.

leillanna · June 2013

kmdave wrote: »

Dead fellow Clerics,

before starting to complain I want to ask you for some advice.

I main the Cleric and it was a lot of fun. For PvE I am getting along pretty well I'd say.

But in PvP I feel so absolutely useless after the patch.

Since being a cleric puts the mark directly onto you, I get jumped by every enemy. I have no way to do something about CC. If you say stay in the back: you know that it is not that easy.

Since I think of myself as a healer I feel pretty much gimped nowadays. I'm not even able to go 1 on 1 with any other class to at least hold a point of our team till reinforcements arrive. AS can't heal me anymore in a useful way, most of the times I can't even hit anyone with my skills since GF's block, GWF's are not impressed with any CC at all, CW's strangle me, throw me around and so on and Rogues just pop their smokebomb, go invis and pretty much tear you apart.

I am looking for a build which is viable for PvE and PvP.

Is there anything like that out there? A video would be nice too, or if you'd accompany me to a round of PvP and give me tips.

Thanks in advance.

Clerics are a wasted spot in pvp. My advice is reroll to something fun to play.

kmdave · June 2013

leillanna wrote: »

Clerics are a wasted spot in pvp. My advice is reroll to something fun to play.

Even though it might be the correct answer I don't wan't to accept this. Can't be that there are only 4 out of 5 classes being able to PvP

aenuu · June 2013

kmdave wrote: »

Dead fellow Clerics,

before starting to complain I want to ask you for some advice.

I main the Cleric and it was a lot of fun. For PvE I am getting along pretty well I'd say.

But in PvP I feel so absolutely useless after the patch.

Since being a cleric puts the mark directly onto you, I get jumped by every enemy. I have no way to do something about CC. If you say stay in the back: you know that it is not that easy.

Since I think of myself as a healer I feel pretty much gimped nowadays. I'm not even able to go 1 on 1 with any other class to at least hold a point of our team till reinforcements arrive. AS can't heal me anymore in a useful way, most of the times I can't even hit anyone with my skills since GF's block, GWF's are not impressed with any CC at all, CW's strangle me, throw me around and so on and Rogues just pop their smokebomb, go invis and pretty much tear you apart.

I am looking for a build which is viable for PvE and PvP.

Is there anything like that out there? A video would be nice too, or if you'd accompany me to a round of PvP and give me tips.

Thanks in advance.

The Divine Cleric currently feels like a pretty lack luster class compared to healers in other games, in my opinion. But it is the class that I chose as my main character and it's what I am sticking with (at least until they add a Ranger class that has a few control abilities (snares, roots, knock backs, traps, etc.).

I joined a guild mate today and we invited a few friends to make a PVP team with. I just dinged 60 last weekend. My gear score is somewhere between 8,100-8,200 I believe - my crit/recovery are both over 2,500 and my Power is... I don't remember, well over 3k. My other stats are not that great. I'm wearing auction house tier 1 gear as I post this.

Do I do well in PVE? Yes, with a team I think I do pretty well based on the feedback I've received. But it doesn't FEEL like I'm doing that well most of the time - it feels like I'm some reckless and out of control maniac running around throwing glitter covered pillows at everything and everyone... and every once in a while I stand perfectly still in the eye of the storm and moon everyone, it draws all the attention to me and then I just keep running until they stop chasing me. Then I start throwing glitter pillows again!

Of course this sounds ridiculous, but if you play a cleric right now, some things are simply ridiculous for us unless you have the right build, gear and enchants for the right job. And I don't have ANY of these things right for PVP, ha ha! But we still won 3/4, and a few of those teams were pre-formed guild teams.

Now, the 3/4 wins we got was not because I had a great build or because I have mastered the cleric class. No. We won only because of team work and I did my best to support my team. ...which often meant dismount, cast 2 - 3 heals/buffs and the pain train sends me back to respawn. Lather, rinse, repeat.

If you asked me for advice while I was playing those 4 matches, I would have replied just the same as leillanna did in her previous post. I told my guild mate several times during the matches we did, that I felt practically useless. My guild mate assured me that I was making a difference and that's the ONLY reason I didn't leave group and abandon my PVP daily. And I am not someone who gives up easily.

I'm glad I stuck around because I learned a few things. I'm not sure what build you're supposed to be using in PVP but I seriously doubt it's the exact same build I was using - the build I heal epic dungeons with. I need good enchants if I want to be anything resembling a competitive DC (is there such a thing?). I also need to have a CW in my PVP groups, this is MUST in my opinion, or the pain is going to be moderately to critically overwhelming - unless the other team is full of newbies & scrubs. And yes, you can still be a complete newbie at level 60 - it only takes 2 - 3 days to reach 60 if you know how to and have all day to play.

In regards to a build that works great for both PVE and PVP? I have no idea. It sure isn't mine, but I did my best with what I had. I hope you find that awesome build, and when you do let me know! I just wanted to point out that the 'right build' alone isn't going to turn your PVP experience upside down (or right side up?).

As for clerics being a wasted spot in PVP - I think in a decent to good team, we are not a wasted spot. In a bad team, however, I have to agree unfortunately. You'd probably be more effective *towards winning* with any other class if you were just as skilled at playing that class because a healing/support cleric is only as good as her team. Although our healing output feels debatably low, it's the only role we're effective in currently. The best we can hope for right now in my opinion is to find a dungeon healing build that can survive well in both PVP and PVE.

I could care less if they nerf our DPS even more - like you, I just want to be able to heal AND survive.
Those clerics that want to be battle clerics and DPS? They should get to do it in my opinion, in a separate paragon path.

I thought D&D clerics are supposed to kick butt, not running around trying to cover their butt? :P

Good luck, kmdave!

kmdave · June 2013

Thanks aenuu,

even though I could go with one of my other toons I don't wan't too.

Like you I've chosen the cleric as my main and invested quite some AD and Zen into it.

I was wondering if I did anything wrong or if the class is just not usable in PvP at the moment.

morsitans · June 2013

Just don't go out expecting to kill anything, or gain any significant glory. If you do your job right (and your team is coordinated), you'll help hold points long enough for capping, and keep your other guys alive long enough that they'll get loads of kills and think they're awesome. And you'll die. A lot. In a sense this is also helpful for your team, since the (admittedly brief) time the enemy team spends killing you coz you're easy meat is time your team gains to go kill them.

Random TR: "I'm pwning n not taeking damage, while teh nub cleric stands at the back and dies lol"

Get used to that ^^

But since winning is not about who kills the most people, and is instead about holding objectives, you can still contribute to victory.

(it's just not terribly rewarding)

aenuu · June 2013

I am sure there are a few clerics out there who are happy with the current state of things. Or maybe they are just 2 fruits on a nut stand? I don't know, I haven't been PVP'ing long enough.

I do know there are some cleric PVP'ers here on the forums who are very happy with our survivability. My question to them is, are any of you solo healing dungeons with the same build with success?

You see, for some dungeons some groups would take 2 clerics with to make up for the lack of healing power combined with the fact that we used to spend most of our time kiting everything except the boss the tank was on.

Also, I'm posting again because I wanted to stress that I'm talking from the my point of view - with crappy gear, relatively speaking. Once I get some better gear, enchants and all that, my tune might change a little bit if I get some survivability.

I think we 'are' playable in PVP right now with a good team, but I think we have to work quite a bit harder and/or smarter than most of the other classes to have even a moderate impact on our teams success.

At any rate, we both know clerics are here to stay.

It's just a matter of time before we get adjustments and tweaks, and then suddenly clerics everywhere rejoice!

aenuu · June 2013

morsitans wrote: »

Just don't go out expecting to kill anything, or gain any significant glory. If you do your job right (and your team is coordinated), you'll help hold points long enough for capping, and keep your other guys alive long enough that they'll get loads of kills and think they're awesome. And you'll die. A lot. In a sense this is also helpful for your team, since the (admittedly brief) time the enemy team spends killing you coz you're easy meat is time your team gains to go kill them.

Random TR: "I'm pwning n not taeking damage, while teh nub cleric stands at the back and dies lol"

Get used to that ^^

But since winning is not about who kills the most people, and is instead about holding objectives, you can still contribute to victory.

(it's just not terribly rewarding)

Oh, that's right! Thank you for mentioning that. I forgot to mention that clerics kinda got the shaft in PVP in that respect.

And part of the reason that nub rogue is still alive and owning people is because I've ran back and healed him 12 times, tossed AS up on a few people each time, and even helped finish off a few that were low on health before I died. :P

faeriestorm · June 2013

I have a dps specced cleric and when she isn't ganked on she can rake up a number of kills. I have won matches n my cleric with a random team. As with anything PvP, traveling as a pack helps immensely.

Forgemaster's flame, break the spirit, and brand of the sun all apply dot damage. This are amazing in PvP. I've even gotten kills with them before when running away

Also daunting light in divine mode.

kmdave · June 2013

Thanks for all your replies.

I am not that much of a PvP person myself but in order to collect a couple ADs per day I more or less have to PvP.

Compared to the other classes our PvE is also quite painful imho. Not saying impossible or so but we take as long for a mob group as other classes for 3-4.

faeriestorm · June 2013

kmdave wrote: »

Thanks for all your replies.

I am not that much of a PvP person myself but in order to collect a couple ADs per day I more or less have to PvP.

Compared to the other classes our PvE is also quite painful imho. Not saying impossible or so but we take as long for a mob group as other classes for 3-4.

Only if you aren't specced as a dps cleric. My dps cleric has regularly beaten CW in damage and sometimes even TR. Use the right skills (even without speccing into it likely) and it will make soloing much easier.

kmdave · June 2013

faeriestorm wrote: »

Only if you aren't specced as a dps cleric. My dps cleric has regularly beaten CW in damage and sometimes even TR. Use the right skills (even without speccing into it likely) and it will make soloing much easier.

For instance?

Would really appreciate your advice

faeriestorm · June 2013

kmdave wrote: »

For instance?

Would really appreciate your advice

both my daunting light and brand of the sun apply a debuff to the enemies damage and defence. Break the spirit is alos a debuff and a DoT forgemaster's flame is a DoT. Also 1 point in templar's domain and lots in divinity gain.

class features I use:
-terrifying insight, gives bonus damage for consecutive hits up to 10% more damage.
-Prophetic action, when maxed out, this can block all damage from 1 attack every 40 seconds.

At wills:
-sacred flame, amazing for divinity gain and pretty good damage
-Brand of the Sun, nice DoT, good for knocking people off their mounts

Encounters:
-Forgemaster's flame, Good DoT and useful for killing people who are almost dead while you run away. I always use this in non divine mode in PvP
-Break the Spirit, Small DoT but also a nice debuff. I sometimes use this in divine mode and sometimes in non-divine.
-Daunting light, highest damage dealing skill we have, Always use in divine mode!

Dailies:
Hammer of Fate, Highest damage dealing daily, hits 3 times and knocks back.
Flamestrike, I rarely use this in PvP, but useful if the enemy team is clumped together. Other then that, Hammer of fate is the daily to use.

This doesn't always work (coincidentally, This is sometimes my boss fight setup) but I try and use the terrain to my advantage and stick with the team. Also the nice thing about the DoT damage is the tanks can't block a DoT. Usually those that I end up killing are CW, and TR but sometimes others as well.

In addition, I also will sometimes use punishing light to finish someone off.

scozzers · June 2013

As someone else pointed out, dots are great and come with nice secondary effects (slow, weaken) but tanks can block the initial spell, just not the subsequent ticks if the spell hits. Also, feat Linked Spirit, gather as much of your party as you can near you before attacking a node. Pop divine sunburst to give them all (and you) extra stats/damage. Pop Hallowed ground (if you can) over the node. Your team will kill a lot faster and survive a lot better and this at least will help you in surviving that encounter (using divine armor can help mitigate burst damage but I feel that helping your team get the most out of their offense is generally better). Will you get points/assists for this? No, you won't. The same way you won't get points/assists for healing but don't feel that you are a wasted slot. In addition, again as others have pointed out, slotting damage encounters over heals can contribute more in a lot of cases (and net you kills/assists). Don't forget you do have some passive healing that can kick out a decent heal here and there, depending on your damage.

kmdave · June 2013

Thanks a lot faeriestorm for pointing that out.

Will give it a try

vmlinux · June 2013

You have nice friends to say you weren't useless in PvP. Were you better than an empty slot? Absolutely. If you went in as any other class you would have been much more useful unfortunately. Many dc's said this would happen if the patch went through, but it was ignored just like this thread. They were dead set on lowering the cleric population and maybe on increasing full health stone sales.

Success!

gtxinsane · June 2013

The only time a pure support cleric is remotely useful in a PvP scenario is both teams are equally geared and skilled (getting team mates to peel off attackers from you). Otherwise you're basically fish feed.

Don't go to a point alone, once point is capped leave it and position yourself to somewhere you can play with line of sight (somewhere between 2 points so you can reinforce much easier). DoTs only become very potent if you manage to draw out a fight long enough. Clerics are basically kings of "situational" kiting (3 dots, 2 slows) if you can, and abuse the terrain and line of sight.

kmdave · June 2013

Tried faeristorm suggestion. Worked out pretty well so far. Feeling less useless in PvP now. Somtetimes I even went to the top of the scoreboard.

I am also still able to heal in the T2's without any issues.

Many thanks to you faeristorm.

P.S.: Still the DC's could need some love.

xouk87 · June 2013

faeriestorm wrote: »

both my daunting light and brand of the sun apply a debuff to the enemies damage and defence. Break the spirit is alos a debuff and a DoT forgemaster's flame is a DoT. Also 1 point in templar's domain and lots in divinity gain.

class features I use:
-terrifying insight, gives bonus damage for consecutive hits up to 10% more damage.
-Prophetic action, when maxed out, this can block all damage from 1 attack every 40 seconds.

At wills:
-sacred flame, amazing for divinity gain and pretty good damage
-Brand of the Sun, nice DoT, good for knocking people off their mounts

Encounters:
-Forgemaster's flame, Good DoT and useful for killing people who are almost dead while you run away. I always use this in non divine mode in PvP
-Break the Spirit, Small DoT but also a nice debuff. I sometimes use this in divine mode and sometimes in non-divine.
-Daunting light, highest damage dealing skill we have, Always use in divine mode!

Dailies:
Hammer of Fate, Highest damage dealing daily, hits 3 times and knocks back.
Flamestrike, I rarely use this in PvP, but useful if the enemy team is clumped together. Other then that, Hammer of fate is the daily to use.

This doesn't always work (coincidentally, This is sometimes my boss fight setup) but I try and use the terrain to my advantage and stick with the team. Also the nice thing about the DoT damage is the tanks can't block a DoT. Usually those that I end up killing are CW, and TR but sometimes others as well.

In addition, I also will sometimes use punishing light to finish someone off.

Well i use similar set of skills jsut instead of FF i use mark of doom , so i Cast mark of doom 2 dots from someone back and if they still haven't killed me daunting light and channel damage in divinity mode. If people are not trying to kill you , there is pretty high chance you gonna keel them.

extol01 · June 2013

faeriestorm wrote: »

Only if you aren't specced as a dps cleric. My dps cleric has regularly beaten CW in damage and sometimes even TR. Use the right skills (even without speccing into it likely) and it will make soloing much easier.

Faeriestorm!
You were sent by the Gods!
I'm new to the game and starting out a Cleric. I know i'm a healer, but dang it, I also want to layout some hurt in PvP.
The biggest problem with my Cleric is just trying to start. You see, I have no idea how to set my starting stat points.
I'll be playing human. Would you mind letting me know how my starting points should look, and where your points have ended up at once you hit 60.

Really appreciate you right now..hehe
thanks!

Looking for advice

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