Defense remains as horrible as can be in this game

wholyhandgrenade · June 2013

So what happens when a cleric goes all defense, maxing out defense as high as they can at level 60? Answer: they get one and two shotted not only in PvP constantly, but also in the game on end boss fights when AS goes down.

cwair01 · June 2013

Isn't it quite obvious already? Cryptic hates us Clerics.

klixan · June 2013

I've come to the sad realization that the cleric, as it stands today, is just an all-round horrible class to play. It might be viable if all you want to do is heal and support, but Tymora help you if you want to do anything else with it.

Now, some people will swear that they solo leveled their clerics without any problems, that they killed every boss and completed every quest without any help at all. Now, I don't like to call BS on anyone, but I just don't believe them. I have yet to see any video's of any cleric soloing any of the higher level bosses.

Heck, I'll eat my hat if anybody can post a video (just one) of any cleric soloing Scalefather or the boss in Vellosk (can't remember his name, but the one that constantly heals himself). But I'm talking legit gameplay here, no cash shop companions or health stones used.

Anyway, as of now, I've deleted my cleric and I have no intentions of ever rolling another one, not unless some drastic changes are made to the class in the future. Maybe, if they ever release something like a battle cleric, I'll give it another go. But IMHO the cleric, as it stands today, is the worst class in the game

cwair01 · June 2013

I would say far from the worst, I've only playing clerics since the closed beta.
I've leveled more then one and i still find them the most enjoyable class to play, not because they are strong in any shape or form but because they provide me with a challenge to play and that's what keeps the game getting boring at end game levels.

If i wasn't 60 already i would happy show a video of me killing scalefather.

reonhato99 · June 2013

I have told many clerics this same thing and many of them refuse to believe it. Stacking max HP is far more efficient. It goes against what most games have done in the past, almost every MMO I have played damage resist > max HP.

HP does not suffer from diminishing returns, 500 more HP is always going to be 500 more HP. Defense on the other hand is fairly easy to get on most item slots and will get to a point that it is not worth it. I have done some math and currently im sitting on 1800 defense with my cleric, and a rank 5 radiant is far more effective over a rank 5 azure.

You also get more of advantage from HP is you use temp HP and %max HP heals.

reonhato99 · June 2013

klixan wrote: »

I've come to the sad realization that the cleric, as it stands today, is just an all-round horrible class to play. It might be viable if all you want to do is heal and support, but Tymora help you if you want to do anything else with it.

Now, some people will swear that they solo leveled their clerics without any problems, that they killed every boss and completed every quest without any help at all. Now, I don't like to call BS on anyone, but I just don't believe them. I have yet to see any video's of any cleric soloing any of the higher level bosses.

Heck, I'll eat my hat if anybody can post a video (just one) of any cleric soloing Scalefather or the boss in Vellosk (can't remember his name, but the one that constantly heals himself). But I'm talking legit gameplay here, no cash shop companions or health stones used.

Anyway, as of now, I've deleted my cleric and I have no intentions of ever rolling another one, not unless some drastic changes are made to the class in the future. Maybe, if they ever release something like a battle cleric, I'll give it another go. But IMHO the cleric, as it stands today, is the worst class in the game

The cleric is arguable the easiest class to solo with because even with his 40% self heals he can by heal himself much more then anyone else. If you are struggling to deal some damage in the mid levels, try daunting light and brand of the sun.

distaste · June 2013

reonhato99 wrote: »

The cleric is arguable the easiest class to solo with because even with his 40% self heals he can by heal himself much more then anyone else. If you are struggling to deal some damage in the mid levels, try daunting light and brand of the sun.

The easiest? No way is that remotely true. The cleric might be able to heal more than other classes but the trade off is killing things 10x slower. What's worse is that other classes don't even need 1/2 the healing that clerics do because they can kill things quickly. In the mid levels (40+) daunting light no longer 1 shots some of the weak mobs and now you're getting hit by multiple mobs. What's worse is they start tossing more and more adds at you as well as mobs that heal. Now not only does the cleric need to heal himself more and possibly kite, but he needs to do far more damage due to mobs healing.

On the flip side a TR for example just mows through the mobs. His cleric companion will get aggro and take the initial beating but usually long enough for the TR to kill everything. Even if things go awry the TR can stealth out. The other classes have CC's, dazes, stuns, etc to keep the high dps mobs from dealing damage, summoners from summoning, and healers from healing all while doing decent or even great DPS.

The cleric is by a wide margin the worst class to solo with. You need to heal yourself at least 3x more than other classes, do more damage to kill the same mobs, kill things far slower, and have no stun(all that I know of are tied to dailies) to stop mob actions.

yushirokane · June 2013

distaste wrote: »

The easiest? No way is that remotely true. The cleric might be able to heal more than other classes but the trade off is killing things 10x slower. What's worse is that other classes don't even need 1/2 the healing that clerics do because they can kill things quickly. In the mid levels (40+) daunting light no longer 1 shots some of the weak mobs and now you're getting hit by multiple mobs. What's worse is they start tossing more and more adds at you as well as mobs that heal. Now not only does the cleric need to heal himself more and possibly kite, but he needs to do far more damage due to mobs healing.

On the flip side a TR for example just mows through the mobs. His cleric companion will get aggro and take the initial beating but usually long enough for the TR to kill everything. Even if things go awry the TR can stealth out. The other classes have CC's, dazes, stuns, etc to keep the high dps mobs from dealing damage, summoners from summoning, and healers from healing all while doing decent or even great DPS.

The cleric is by a wide margin the worst class to solo with. You need to heal yourself at least 3x more than other classes, do more damage to kill the same mobs, kill things far slower, and have no stun(all that I know of are tied to dailies) to stop mob actions.

It

zingarbage · June 2013

Defense is just a terrible stat in general. Better to just go deflect or HP.

abombination247 · June 2013

Defense is not ideal for most classes. You should still want it. Although I do have 48% dmg reduction on my GF. At that lvl helps a lot. As far as enchants yea never socket def always rank7+ Radiant health is the way to go.

healsareop · June 2013

reonhato99 wrote: »

The cleric is arguable the easiest class to solo with because even with his 40% self heals he can by heal himself much more then anyone else. If you are struggling to deal some damage in the mid levels, try daunting light and brand of the sun.

You know absolutely nothing.

etherealj · June 2013

Defense is a freakishly bad stat. Even as a GF, Defense goes deep into dimishing returns just from the stats on armor alone.

sfxer001 · June 2013

Allow me to present two words to you all:

Effective Health

This is a mixture of defensive mitigation stats and health pool. Increasing your Effective Health should always be you goal in any game. In this game, you get your defense to the point where heavy diminishing returns kick in, as well as your deflect rating if you are a tank. After that, you focus on increasing your max health, as others have said. This will provide the highest Effective Health per investment.

ranncore · June 2013

etherealj wrote: »

Defense is a freakishly bad stat. Even as a GF, Defense goes deep into dimishing returns just from the stats on armor alone.

I'm sitting at a solid 50% damage resistance on my GF - when my buffs and procs go up I can get to 70%.
I like Defense.

wholyhandgrenade · June 2013

klixan wrote: »

I've come to the sad realization that the cleric, as it stands today, is just an all-round horrible class to play. It might be viable if all you want to do is heal and support, but Tymora help you if you want to do anything else with it.

Now, some people will swear that they solo leveled their clerics without any problems, that they killed every boss and completed every quest without any help at all. Now, I don't like to call BS on anyone, but I just don't believe them. I have yet to see any video's of any cleric soloing any of the higher level bosses.

Heck, I'll eat my hat if anybody can post a video (just one) of any cleric soloing Scalefather or the boss in Vellosk (can't remember his name, but the one that constantly heals himself). But I'm talking legit gameplay here, no cash shop companions or health stones used.

Anyway, as of now, I've deleted my cleric and I have no intentions of ever rolling another one, not unless some drastic changes are made to the class in the future. Maybe, if they ever release something like a battle cleric, I'll give it another go. But IMHO the cleric, as it stands today, is the worst class in the game

My first cleric finished every quest solo, but didn't do many foundry quests, or group quests. Even being able to do that the cleric is one hit to death in group quests, unable to finish most, one and two hit and stun locked hit to death in PvE matches, being heavily equipped needs to run away from any class other than a cleric that is even close to being moderately played or equipped well. Its beyond horrible.

wholyhandgrenade · June 2013

distaste wrote: »

The easiest? No way is that remotely true. The cleric might be able to heal more than other classes but the trade off is killing things 10x slower. What's worse is that other classes don't even need 1/2 the healing that clerics do because they can kill things quickly. In the mid levels (40+) daunting light no longer 1 shots some of the weak mobs and now you're getting hit by multiple mobs. What's worse is they start tossing more and more adds at you as well as mobs that heal. Now not only does the cleric need to heal himself more and possibly kite, but he needs to do far more damage due to mobs healing.

On the flip side a TR for example just mows through the mobs. His cleric companion will get aggro and take the initial beating but usually long enough for the TR to kill everything. Even if things go awry the TR can stealth out. The other classes have CC's, dazes, stuns, etc to keep the high dps mobs from dealing damage, summoners from summoning, and healers from healing all while doing decent or even great DPS.

The cleric is by a wide margin the worst class to solo with. You need to heal yourself at least 3x more than other classes, do more damage to kill the same mobs, kill things far slower, and have no stun(all that I know of are tied to dailies) to stop mob actions.

and our heals don't even come close to healing us anymore, not to mention all of them are over time slow heals and healing word even though you can cast it initially many times will completely drain your divine power that you have to constantly toggle on and off while doing so... boss fights, yikes, they are toggling night mares, you need to move from being hit while toggling on and off divinity, while switching from healing keys to attacking keys, while your character always has to stop to cast anything and so you have to shift teleport to avoid being target hit by 4 or 5 things at once, and all this without any dodge/deflection and with defense that doesn't protect you at all... watching players quaff special healing potions in PvP that heals far more than you could ever heal yourself or anyone else and being fully aware that alchemy will soon be out and people will be making their own potions soon enough and healing with them in both the game and in PvP is the final cleric insult... this game can go to #$%$, hope it dies out soon

wholyhandgrenade · June 2013

zingarbage wrote: »

Defense is just a terrible stat in general. Better to just go deflect or HP.

clerics don't get deflect, at best if they try for it they can get maybe 5%, and HP comes at the cost of everything else and won't in any way make a bit of difference

wholyhandgrenade · June 2013

ranncore wrote: »

I'm sitting at a solid 50% damage resistance on my GF - when my buffs and procs go up I can get to 70%.
I like Defense.

your GF gets higher defense than clerics do, plus high deflection, plus the ability to use dailies and attack heal itself to a far greater extent than clerics can heal themselves, plus the GF has high relative damage compared to the cleric, plus the GF has incredibly fast movement speed to chase down others and to speed away in escape

tinfoii · June 2013

klixan wrote: »

I've come to the sad realization that the cleric, as it stands today, is just an all-round horrible class to play. It might be viable if all you want to do is heal and support, but Tymora help you if you want to do anything else with it.

Now, some people will swear that they solo leveled their clerics without any problems, that they killed every boss and completed every quest without any help at all. Now, I don't like to call BS on anyone, but I just don't believe them. I have yet to see any video's of any cleric soloing any of the higher level bosses.

Heck, I'll eat my hat if anybody can post a video (just one) of any cleric soloing Scalefather or the boss in Vellosk (can't remember his name, but the one that constantly heals himself). But I'm talking legit gameplay here, no cash shop companions or health stones used.

Anyway, as of now, I've deleted my cleric and I have no intentions of ever rolling another one, not unless some drastic changes are made to the class in the future. Maybe, if they ever release something like a battle cleric, I'll give it another go. But IMHO the cleric, as it stands today, is the worst class in the game

I'm already lvl 60, but I soloed everything but the Rime wolf in Icepeak... Really not hard until that point.

Also, pvp dmg at 60 is painful, but clerics are really, really not underpowered in pve.

wholyhandgrenade · June 2013

tinfoii wrote: »

I'm already lvl 60, but I soloed everything but the Rime wolf in Icepeak... Really not hard until that point.

Also, pvp dmg at 60 is painful, but clerics are really, really not underpowered in pve.

before the last patch I'd agree with you, but since then it has become way worse for the soloing cleric due to AS time and strength being cut, a real inability to self-heal, and the fix that effectively cut divinity power regeneration in half... they really screwed the cleric in the last patch

savrai · June 2013

Pre-60 divine mode Forgemasters and Astral Seal will keep you alive as long as you are controlling the fight. Just pop brand of the sun on every mob in view and if they get close and start overwhelming you, hit divinity and knock them back. It definitely takes longer to kill things but you can control only a little worse than the wiz and can soak damage only a little worse than the fighter, but you can do BOTH of them while dealing damage.

I soloed through level 60 finishing all the content including the delves and skirmishes when they popped up. I thought leveling the rogue was a bit more frustrating because you could only really hit 1 mob at a time.

But as for the OP, clerics wear chain, not plate. I imagine higher AC mitigates more damage regardless of defense stats. Plate>Chain and that's not even including the +6 or so the fighters get from a shield...

wholyhandgrenade · June 2013

savrai wrote: »

Pre-60 divine mode Forgemasters and Astral Seal will keep you alive as long as you are controlling the fight. Just pop brand of the sun on every mob in view and if they get close and start overwhelming you, hit divinity and knock them back. It definitely takes longer to kill things but you can control only a little worse than the wiz and can soak damage only a little worse than the fighter, but you can do BOTH of them while dealing damage.

I soloed through level 60 finishing all the content including the delves and skirmishes when they popped up. I thought leveling the rogue was a bit more frustrating because you could only really hit 1 mob at a time.

But as for the OP, clerics wear chain, not plate. I imagine higher AC mitigates more damage regardless of defense stats. Plate>Chain and that's not even including the +6 or so the fighters get from a shield...

although plate is greater than chain, chain is by far the most nimble and the easiest to dodge in, try dodging in plate (you can't)... but who gets dodge, not the cleric in chain but rather those in plate... and where chain outshines plate is that arrows would penetrate plate but not chain, so where is the chain wearer's bonus against ranged attacks to that of those in plate... clerics in chain are way slower than fighters in plate

ganjaman1 · June 2013

wholyhandgrenade wrote: »

So what happens when a cleric goes all defense, maxing out defense as high as they can at level 60? Answer: they get one and two shotted not only in PvP constantly, but also in the game on end boss fights when AS goes down.

Then stack regeneration deflection and HP , have you tried anything else or you're just here to spam the forums ?

But wait wait , why would Mr.IcryTooMuch will ruin his 4p T2 set bonus and go out of his way to try something new that just MIGHT work when it's obviously easier to flood the forums posting misleading information .

wholyhandgrenade · June 2013

ganjaman1 wrote: »

Then stack regeneration deflection and HP , have you tried anything else or you're just here to spam the forums ?

But wait wait , why would Mr.IcryTooMuch will ruin his 4p T2 set bonus and go out of his way to try something new that just MIGHT work when it's obviously easier to flood the forums posting misleading information .

regeneration and deflection won't go high on clerics, they don't have such stats built into their equipment nor do they have places to place points into for those things... if you go for deflection as a cleric you get maybe 5% deflect, if you stack regeneration as a cleric the over time heal is too low to do anything but irritate you by watching it... one of my clerics did go with life steal cause that can be taken up to 7.5% and so, but in PvP play that means you need to kill 13.3 opponents or so just to fill your life bar once, beside clerics should be able to heal hence they are clerics

Defense remains as horrible as can be in this game

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