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This is so messed up...
guitarzan698
Member Posts: 384 Arc User
What is messed up, you say?
This game is, in so many ways, on so many levels.
But, not just the game.. but many of the players, as well.
Before I read the tirade of responses that I'm sure I will receive, just hear me out, please.
Let me start by saying that I have been running an ongoing, weekly, table-top, role-playing game for many years.
I bought the 3 book, boxed edition of D&D in 1975.. I DM'ed my first game within hours of getting my hands on the books. I have been running that game ever since. Yeah, that's a long time. I have personally played almost every role playing game that ever hit the market. Then in the late '90's, computers and the internet really caught on, and the MMORPG was born. I have played a few of these as well.
Cryptic/Perfect World have made what I believe are two huge mistakes.
First, imho, this game should be f2p and only allow players to purchase (with real money) expansions to the game tools (character slots, racial and class choices, shared bank slots, etc.) and possibly additional content (not improvements to the characters). Instead this company has allowed players to purchase equipment and other in-game items. This has totally screwed up the entire game. Greedy players, many with lots of money to <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> away on silly things like games, have taken advantage of this. And of course, Cryptic is a company designed to make someone money, They are trying to cash in on this. Software is the one product that is allowed to go to market before it is ready to use. Imagine purchasing a car, or some piece of electronics that doesn't work correctly for months or even years after you bought it. This is standard procedure for software companies. Game Development companies fall into this category.
Second, this game isn't even vaguely like the D&D I know. It's a video game shooter... looks and plays like so many others. Where are the spells? Where are the Dragons? It's a hack and slash, first-person shooter. Even the mighty wizard is just a fighter with some special effects to simulate some attack spell. It's really pathetic to call this D&D.
The one redeeming thing here is the foundry. It's extremely limited, and really does not live up to what it could be... but it's a start. Pretty much everything else seems like I've seen it before in a different game, now repackaged under this title. But even the foundry seems like it was designed to reinforce the profit motive of this company.
I suppose the idea of an open beta release is to find bugs and receive feedback from the players.. and considering that the foundry has been down for a while, I guess they have found some bugs. Well, Here is my feedback, Cryptic/Perfect World...If your product is only intended to make a bit of cash before it dies, then your moving in the right direction. If you want to have a product that will earn good income for many years, then I think you should concentrate on your game's strong points. I may be mistaken, but it looks like most of the updates and patches lately are primarily to fix the screwed-up, in-game economy. Which brings me back to my first point mentioned above. It's like being able to buy the rules or the dice rolls with real cash. Can you imagine a pnp version of a D&D game where the players can bribe the Dungeon Master with cash for a better treasure? Or a weaker monster? I'm sure it's happened but I don't think I would want to be a player in that game. This economic system is something that should definitely be fixed before public release.
As far as my second point is concerned, the foundry system is a great idea so please don't skimp on this facet of your product. It's the one part that will really help keep this somewhat weak product alive.
Remember the movie 'Field of Dreams'... "Build it and they will come". If Cryptic can put together a fun and reliable product with the medieval fantasy role-playing game concept, under the D&D name, then Cryptic/Perfect World will get rich but if thing keep going in this direction then this product will tank and we will all be looking for a new game.
Just my humble opinion.
This game is, in so many ways, on so many levels.
But, not just the game.. but many of the players, as well.
Before I read the tirade of responses that I'm sure I will receive, just hear me out, please.
Let me start by saying that I have been running an ongoing, weekly, table-top, role-playing game for many years.
I bought the 3 book, boxed edition of D&D in 1975.. I DM'ed my first game within hours of getting my hands on the books. I have been running that game ever since. Yeah, that's a long time. I have personally played almost every role playing game that ever hit the market. Then in the late '90's, computers and the internet really caught on, and the MMORPG was born. I have played a few of these as well.
Cryptic/Perfect World have made what I believe are two huge mistakes.
First, imho, this game should be f2p and only allow players to purchase (with real money) expansions to the game tools (character slots, racial and class choices, shared bank slots, etc.) and possibly additional content (not improvements to the characters). Instead this company has allowed players to purchase equipment and other in-game items. This has totally screwed up the entire game. Greedy players, many with lots of money to <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> away on silly things like games, have taken advantage of this. And of course, Cryptic is a company designed to make someone money, They are trying to cash in on this. Software is the one product that is allowed to go to market before it is ready to use. Imagine purchasing a car, or some piece of electronics that doesn't work correctly for months or even years after you bought it. This is standard procedure for software companies. Game Development companies fall into this category.
Second, this game isn't even vaguely like the D&D I know. It's a video game shooter... looks and plays like so many others. Where are the spells? Where are the Dragons? It's a hack and slash, first-person shooter. Even the mighty wizard is just a fighter with some special effects to simulate some attack spell. It's really pathetic to call this D&D.
The one redeeming thing here is the foundry. It's extremely limited, and really does not live up to what it could be... but it's a start. Pretty much everything else seems like I've seen it before in a different game, now repackaged under this title. But even the foundry seems like it was designed to reinforce the profit motive of this company.
I suppose the idea of an open beta release is to find bugs and receive feedback from the players.. and considering that the foundry has been down for a while, I guess they have found some bugs. Well, Here is my feedback, Cryptic/Perfect World...If your product is only intended to make a bit of cash before it dies, then your moving in the right direction. If you want to have a product that will earn good income for many years, then I think you should concentrate on your game's strong points. I may be mistaken, but it looks like most of the updates and patches lately are primarily to fix the screwed-up, in-game economy. Which brings me back to my first point mentioned above. It's like being able to buy the rules or the dice rolls with real cash. Can you imagine a pnp version of a D&D game where the players can bribe the Dungeon Master with cash for a better treasure? Or a weaker monster? I'm sure it's happened but I don't think I would want to be a player in that game. This economic system is something that should definitely be fixed before public release.
As far as my second point is concerned, the foundry system is a great idea so please don't skimp on this facet of your product. It's the one part that will really help keep this somewhat weak product alive.
Remember the movie 'Field of Dreams'... "Build it and they will come". If Cryptic can put together a fun and reliable product with the medieval fantasy role-playing game concept, under the D&D name, then Cryptic/Perfect World will get rich but if thing keep going in this direction then this product will tank and we will all be looking for a new game.
Just my humble opinion.
Post edited by guitarzan698 on
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And heres the big one though, "many with lots of money to <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> away on silly things like video games"? Seriously? You supposedly bought the box set in 75? Really? Because that was pretty foolish back then, wasting money on some silly idea no ones ever heard of. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you're being truthful, which makes it even worse. People spending money on something they enjoy now is no worse than buying the box set back when you were young. Maybe that loss of youth coupled with a lack of ability to adapt to changing times is where the real problem is?
I have been playing since 2nd and 4th is the one that i like best... it feels like an mmo to start with and the options avail are truly amazing!!
i feel you on the fact that they should basically have the expansions as something you should buy... if I could buy additional races and classes i would so do that!!! as it is right now i make enough in the AH to buy Zen every day, about $5-10 every session... there is nothing that i want to buy from the Zen store except enchanted keys and dyes...
If they were to have "players guides" available to buy that would actually be so awesome... Goliaths, Shadar' kai, monster races... there are so many other classes they could add!!!
$20 for a few races and classes sounds fair right?
D&D Home Page - What Class Are You? - Build A Character - D&D Compendium
LOL my fav DM used Starburst as mobs.
To the OP - I know where you're coming from. There are two major expectation issues:
MMO vs. PnP - Its really hard to take a PnP game set and put it into a video game. I think they've done a few cool unique things (i.e. the skill nodes) that kinda reflect back to PnP, but I just think its really hard to build a similar experience. I also think its easy for the Devs to slip into the FPS/MMO mindset when designing content. I think if they offered a bit more story or puzzle to dungeons the game would be generally better off.
4e D&D - Ahh good old 4e. I started playing Pathfinder because 4e is just too watered down for me. There is a lot less focus on character development and uniqueness. The focus of 4e feels more like its suited to today's generation with tabletop hack-n-slash action. Even at major conventions like GenCon, there is always a line out the door to play the Convention Delves which has like 0 role-playing - its just square grids and combat.
I do have to agree on the foundry though. It does feel like it has some great potential. I'm just concerned the state of the game will drive off a huge volume of gamers/creators before we truly get to see its true potential.
"Welcome to the land of imagination. You are about to begin a journey into worlds where magic and monsters are the order of the day, where law and chaos are forever at odds, where adventure and heroism are the meat and drink of all who would seek their fortunes in uncommon pursuit. This is the realm of DUNGEONS & DRAGONS Adventure Game."
Sadly this never translates well to a D&D video game. It has been the downfall of many games. They just cannot replicate the immense amount of imagination from the old books and rules and translate it to a game. Especially using a hotbar with half a dozen or so spells or effects like Neverwinter does.
I agree with you that Foundry is probably the best thing this game has going for it for old time fans of the Franchise. It is where the majority of hard core fans hang out. Either creating or playing. Hopefully they keep it going strong.
I have yet to find a game that actually Feels like a pnp session. DDO is the closest i have found to old school D&D. Although over the past few years they just took to many liberties breaking the rules and straying away from its origins. They kinda turned it into some pay to win Zynga grinder now. Kinda like this game but multiplied by 100 in grind.
So I don't know man? Aside from actually keeping on campaigning in real life with your books. I do not really see a light at the end of the tunnel to replicate that experience. Nothing can quench that thirst for D&D except the real thing.. These online games are just filler to pass the time in between campaigns for many of us. Nothing more.
On the plus side of things they announced they will be making a lot of higher end loot from dungeons bind on pickup. Not sure if this will address your concerns with the whole loot argument thing but its a start i guess. I personally could care less about who has what item, or how they got it. . I am in it for the adventure with friends. The rest is just really fluff for me..
That's good enough for me!
No wait...I take that back. It has that plus..
Our Orcs are not green.
Our Elves are not purple with 3 foot long ears.
Our Halflings are better and arnt Hobbits.
We dont have a panda race.
Our Dwarves dont carry blunderbusses. Lets face it, they are <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> enough without them.
Our dragons arnt named after hazy conditions in L.A. California.
We can cast Magic Missile.
I can say "Go for the eyes Boo!" and people know what I'm talking about.
I can say my character hails from Waterdeep or Baldurs Gate. and people wont tell me I'm playing the wrong game.
A critical hit in this game always seems just a tiny bit better then anywhere else.
A boss fight here isnt a just a rush of adds. It is a twisted DM abusing the encounter table.
Put simply, as long as the setting is right. It is D&D to me. The mechanics will continue to change for good or bad. That is life. But its the adventure that really matters. As long as I can park my characters rump on the same bar stool that Elminster once sat on or skulked through a few legendary places of the Sword Coast. It is good enough for me.
You are right about all of your wonderful points made in your Soliloquy except one. Blizzard entertainment has and will always hold the markets share of the Mmo world. Until a company comes along and does what Blizzard did which was to take bits and pieces of other games put them all together and come out with a Much better experience to offer gamers, nothing is going to beat them. Cryptic is in No way shape or form going to top any mmo records with this game.
They developed a Half assed hack-n-slash game slapped a D&D label on it to help fill their pockets from fanboy/girl D&D players and nothing more. This game has so many issues wrong with it right now and yet we have a scheduled release set for the 20th of June? Really? This last patch introduced even more bugs into the game for cw players as well as gwf players, that need to be fixed, on top of the already massive issue they seem to be having with client/server stability.
Yes I see this game going the way of Warhammer, Conan, Lotro, and the rest of them that game after Blizzards World of Warcraft game. What was always being posted on the World of Warcraft forums, Which Game is going to topple the Giant Next? And yet here they are left at the top of the **** pile still holding 8 million subs and not worried about any up in coming company who can't even manage to get Client/server stability under control, let alone the other issues this game has.
Life is a dream for the wise, a game for the fool, a comedy for the rich, a tragedy for the poor.
~Sholom Aleichem
when i was playing a cleric, even with all the aggro problems, it was still better than playing a GF in a boss fight.
i mean i cant dodge or kite, nor am i supposed to, but honestly its ridiculous.
last boss fight just now i had the boss and like a dozen enemies on me, it was an endless stream of red circles under my feat.
of course my block meter only goes so far and then im getting pummeled and mashing the potion button on cooldown to barely survive.
it is just not fun.
they need to come up with something to make boss fights fun that is not headache inducing chaos.
P2w will Always exist in F2p games, it's how they make their money. Of course that's not to say a company couldn't go about it differently. Instead of offering what should be the staple in an mmo, such as keys to open lock boxes, or bags for more bag space or bank slots, they should offer character customization, armor customization kits, mounts, new classes, pets, and companions.
Don't offer weapons because that really does give an unfair advantage to haves vs the have nots in terms of real money being spent on the game. But allowing players to spend real money to get an awesome customization for their character that no one else will have in game would be sweet.
Life is a dream for the wise, a game for the fool, a comedy for the rich, a tragedy for the poor.
~Sholom Aleichem
Remember those green army men? Remember the amazing things they did, and the incredible places they could go? Sky was the limit with those toys, because you could do whatever you and your friends could imagine. You had to in fact, because we didn't have a whole lot else;). Now, it has to have graphics, bells, whistles, and more importantly, it needs to tell you what to do and think. "Read quest text? Boring, I wanna max level and do endgame." No one cares about the journey anymore its got too much imagination, all they want is the gimmee, and companies being in this for a profit will do just that.
The dnd you and I grew up on is the product of dead world, sort of like by gamers for gamers. We live in a new world now, adapt or, well, you know. That said, its probably because of my ability to imagine that I like this game. Its not what once was, but that's ok, I can fill in the gaps, and its way better than those old army men I'm used to after a little polishing....
Every game is pay to win. You really think that someone who really wants to RMT can't do it in Ultima Online, Everquest, or World of Warcraft? The only difference is that in Neverwinter people who want to RMT are not forced to use 3rd party websites to buy your uber epic endgame lewts.
I spent 500$ on an OpenMoko Neo Freerunner while it was still in beta. It is the only phone I have ever sold for more then I purchased it for. It never worked correctly for making voice phone calls, but the dataline was decent and the Neo Freerunner was one of the only cellphones that you could get with a development board. The reason the beta phones were in such high demand is the hardware was not just jailbroken, but rather was totally Open Source, so the device makes for an extremely powerful robot brain for the homebrew robotics scene.
There are people driving beta version's of google's car.
There are people wearing beta versions of google's cyborg eyeglasses.
Go read some modern D&D lore. This game is exactly D&D, you are just old and have not played D&D in a really long time. If you did not keep up with D&D and buy their new products then you can't really complain they changed everything, because you were not supporting them when they made those changes. You are not their target audiance anymore, as you stopped playing their game, and you stopped giving them money. So they decided to change the game to better suit the people who actually were playing, and paying to support the developers.
All of the classes, powers and lore are straight out the 4th edition players handbook, maybe you should buy it and read it before making assumptions about what is or is not inside it. Otherwise you are not their customer, and your opinion on the subject is meaningless.
Sorry to hear that.
Feast of the Moon | Rising of the Dark | Shadow of the World | Everdark
As for the zen shop, there are a lot of things about it I don't like either. But, what people spend their money on is none of my business.
I'd recommend making foundry quests if you haven't already, and make the game you wish this was via this system. You'll probably enjoy the game a lot more.
This is ideal. Real games are always made by gamers and not the corporation paying for it. Unfortunately we have an excelent example of what happens in the scenerio with Vanguard. Made by a gamer who was dependant on a big corporation for financing. That big corporation wants to see the cash flow come in for all thier support. So they push and push and push and finaly demand the prooduct be released when it is so obviously not ready. Then you get a major flop which largely unplayable. It was amazingly concieved, with amazing lore, world, class and group dynamics. Dreamed up by a gamer and programmer.
If some of those programmers out there would start thier own game, instead of developing addons for other games, I'm sure it would be an amazing game. I would play it *shrug*
Owell. Theres always skyrim. *sigh*
Unfortunately "gamer and programmer" are only a few of the skills required to develop a quality game.
What happens if you have a gamer and programmer develop a game is you get a game with sound game mechanics, great lore, and a stable codebase... but looks like something made 10 years ago, has poorly written dialog, bad voice acting, and janky cutscenes.
You need artists, animators, writers, cinematographers. In other words, you need a team.
Right. Because that is not a game made by a corporation only interested in the bottom line. WTB horse armor? Never mind you don't even have the privilege of playing it without ponying up.
Feast of the Moon | Rising of the Dark | Shadow of the World | Everdark
firstly neverwinter is a business for cryptic, a game second. I dislike it being that way but that is reality
so what your saying is your envious of people with more money then yourself, and that it gives them an unfair advantage in some areas. welcome to real life..........
And dice?! Bah, we couldn't afford dice. We used rocks. No, we didn't roll them. We chucked them at the other players, if we hit our characters hit. Critical hits where kinda messy. But we used what we had. You youth today. You got it easy!
OP, you seem awfully bitter. Id suggest Metamucil. And I promise, if you ask nicely, we will stay off your lawn.
Feast of the Moon | Rising of the Dark | Shadow of the World | Everdark
It never, ever translates well unless the game is being run live by an actual DM. Turn based games got a lot closer but even they lacked the freedom of tabletop.
Neverwinter has done a credible job of adapting the feeling of DnD within the limitations of an MMO.
Join Us|Officer of The Noore|Nyan Cat
For a player to be able to purchase in-game items with real cash, well, it just ruins the whole immersion experience, for me... and in my humble opinion, it's making it very difficult for game balance, as well. Not to mention, some players will always try to have an unfair advantage.
I'm sorry if this is the standard the young gamer has known.. it's still not fair.
Just look at Kris he's awesome, next step 5 millions rank 8 ench... let's just wait(