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Need some tips for Dracolich fight punting

hidusxhidusx Member Posts: 20 Arc User
edited June 2013 in The Library
I'm starting to get frustrated with going all the way through CN only to discover that our CW(s) are incapable of consistently punting adds over the rail. Now I play DC not CW but I have noticed a few recurring issues:

1. Their timing is off. Mobs get dropped from arcane singularity and land on the ground before the punt comes which results in them just bouncing off the railing and coming back.

2. Their positioning is off. Mobs spray all over the place, some go over the rail but a lot don't.

3. They get hit during their setup which causes throws off their timing/positioning.

4. It seems the more adds there are the worse they are. Not sure if they are lagging & messing up on timing or if it's just nerves.

Now aside from "get a better CW", what else can the rest of the group do in this situation? Is there something we can do to make the CW's job easier or it this purely a CW skill-check fight?
Post edited by hidusx on

Comments

  • mystflamemystflame Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users Posts: 33
    edited May 2013
    I have done several runs through CN as a CW. In all honesty, it IS a CW's fight. ****ty CW means wipe. However, you CAN make our job easier in two ways.

    First, by having the DC's collect the mobs that are near the boss, and bring them to the CW's. If we are allowed to focus only on the punting combo, it makes our job a lot easier.

    Second, stagger your astral shields. I notice several teams of DC's will stack them directly on top of each other. This just isn't enough room to move.

    Finally, **** does happen. I have been rocking the entire fight, had my arcane singularity up, and 3-4 fists start charging beneath me. I teleport off them, directly into a mob's knock-back, which in turn knocked me back into the fists just as they activated. Instant death. Mobs went everywhere, killing everyone.

    It is kinda sad that the fight is so CW skill based, but that's just how it is. Only thing to do is try to add the good CW's to your friends list, and invite them to your CN run groups. Hope this helped :)
  • violated87violated87 Member, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    Numbers 1 and 2 are simply player errors. The CW just has to play better.

    Number 3 is a real problem. I try to use Steal Time for the AOE stun to prevent this. Group members can help this problem by using hard CCs to try and prevent mobs from using CCs on the CW. Also, when you see the CW using AS, try to move away from it so that if a mob targets you with a telegraph attack it won't impact the CW getting to a good position for the knockback.

    Number 4 is just reality. The more mobs there are, the more knockbacks, telegraphs, disables, etc are being thrown out which makes it harder and harder to get things under control. In particular, the Red Wizards are challenging because they spawn on the far sides of the room and cast spells and telegraphs at range, often times too far to be picked up by the AS at the edge of the room. Groups can help with this by knocking them closer to the designated push spots and/or into the CWs AS range.
  • keatookeatoo Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    The knockback has to be done a split second before the singularity's knockup explosion, its a matter of timing, and getting used to it. First time I did dracolich i failed horribly, like 4-5 knockbacks in a row... luckily we had two really good clerics who could handle the huge clusterf of mobs until i could get the hang of the knockback. Its a bad idea to wait after the explosion so that you can visually SEE the mobs get knocked up in the air before u use your knockback.

    Just my experience!
  • vornado71vornado71 Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users Posts: 67
    edited May 2013
    keatoo wrote: »
    The knockback has to be done a split second before the singularity's knockup explosion, its a matter of timing, and getting used to it. First time I did dracolich i failed horribly, like 4-5 knockbacks in a row... luckily we had two really good clerics who could handle the huge clusterf of mobs until i could get the hang of the knockback. Its a bad idea to wait after the explosion so that you can visually SEE the mobs get knocked up in the air before u use your knockback.

    Just my experience!

    Can you or anyone else describe the exact timing in a little more detail? Knockup explosion isn't explicit enough for me :( I also viewed a vid where the CW was using tabbed Repel to great success. Anyone want to chime in on that process/timing?

    I am not a CW though, I am just trying to help out a guildie and ease my frustration. I get real grouchy when I see 4 missed punts in a row and then witness a 5th. I start cringing at the massive damage headed my way.....
  • keatookeatoo Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    Well, there is the pull.. which slowly pulls the mobs in and eventually draws them in fully and keeps them kinda floating in the air for a sec, basically from here you have to get used to when to use your knockback. You only have a short period slightly before and after the knockup period that they will actually get knocked up and away from your shield knockback. Not sure how else to explain it, I would say you need to get a feeling of when to use your knockback while the singularity is in effect, like I said earlier, visually seeing the mobs getting the knock-UP from the singularity usually ends in failed knockback in my experience.
  • violated87violated87 Member, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    vornado71 wrote: »
    Can you or anyone else describe the exact timing in a little more detail? Knockup explosion isn't explicit enough for me :( I also viewed a vid where the CW was using tabbed Repel to great success. Anyone want to chime in on that process/timing?

    I am not a CW though, I am just trying to help out a guildie and ease my frustration. I get real grouchy when I see 4 missed punts in a row and then witness a 5th. I start cringing at the massive damage headed my way.....

    The window to use knockback is from just after the mobs get lifted up off the ground to then the explosion happens with AS. If you do it before they are lifted up they won't make it over the railing. After the explosion is risky unless are you right at the very edge, otherwise they fall too quickly and hit the railing.

    I'd avoid using Repel. I'm fairly certain it has an AOE cap and it doesn't refill your AP like Shield Push does in my experience.
  • copticonecopticone Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    It's funny that when people are talking about CN Draco, it's with an assumption that having 2 DCs and no GF/GWFs is a matter of fact. There is no way in hell this fight was specifically created with this tactic in mind.
    Check out my personal Nerf Proof T2 Thaumaturge Build.
  • zelkovahzelkovah Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    If you pay attention the mobs get "distorted" when they get absorbed by the singularity. It looks like they twirl, thats when he should use shield and before the explosion.

    It reminds me of Neil deGrassi Tyson talking about what happens when you go into a black hole and describing the process with the word "spaghettification".
  • vornado71vornado71 Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users Posts: 67
    edited May 2013
    thanks for all of the tips and inputs!! :)
  • marvelousjmarvelousj Member Posts: 13 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    When the singularity starts to spin them around in a circle and suck them in is when you need to hit it. Sometimes slight lag can effect you knock offs and you might only get a few. I find it better to have 2 CW and have both try to shield each others singularity just in case one gets knocked down or is late or just something doesn't go right. It is better late then early. A early one will spread them and the second CW wont be able to knock them off.
  • dominemesisdominemesis Member Posts: 269 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    Tabbed repel, or shield explosion in conjunction with singularity going off is the key, but targetting during singularity sometimes is weird. Occasionally mobs become un-targettable during the singularity, and sometimes for a few seconds after I have noticed.
  • eviltimmeheviltimmeh Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 8 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    Have a 2 cw with TAB shield and use it right before they being sucked in the singularity. You can also try TAB ed repeal and use it right under the singularity facing ceiling of the room, not in front of em. Should work.
  • bankywanky2bankywanky2 Member, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 8 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    the window for shield burst/repel is actually a lot bigger than what people are making it out to be in this thread; just hit it later rather than sooner, and learn to use the visual/audio cues associated with the end of the singularity, it really isn't hard, unless you have lag spikes, which has happened to me on occasion.
  • soulwarrior78soulwarrior78 Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users Posts: 541 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    I've done that fight plenty of times. When I first did that fight, we probably wiped 2-3 times, but by the 4th run I was getting that knockback down the perfection.

    Of course, now that I got that shield knockback explosion down to science, it's hard to even find a grp that wants to do it that way. Most people just want the CW to do the exploit to cause the mobs to spawn outside the room. It's extremely boring being forced to do that exploit, because the last boss without any adds at all is one boring *** fight. At least with the shield knockback I had something to do while the TR killed the boss.
  • istari21istari21 Member Posts: 5 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    search way to do this solo after patch
    1. tab entagling force + shield = x2 arcane singularity for 1 shield, but its too risky? done it after several wipes
    2. tab repel + shield + dc sunburst for x2 push on wall, but sometimes it dont work
    any different ways?
  • copticonecopticone Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    istari21 wrote: »
    search way to do this solo after patch
    1. tab entagling force + shield = x2 arcane singularity for 1 shield, but its too risky? done it after several wipes
    2. tab repel + shield + dc sunburst for x2 push on wall, but sometimes it dont work
    any different ways?

    You DEFINITELY dont want 2x Singularities up at the same time. That will mess things up pretty good.
    Entangling Force on Tab and using Shield Pulse is the best way I found to doing this.
    Once you know the sweet spot to knockback the Singularity, you realize that the hardest part is not the knockback itself. It's surviving long enough, and maneuvering between all reds, so you can get your knockback off. So this is what I do. After I throw Singularity up, I either cast Steal Time if it is available OR just run away about 20-25ft in any direction. The red AoE will then follow me, so by the time I run back to the singularity for the push, there is less of a chance to get hit with any red underneath.
    Check out my personal Nerf Proof T2 Thaumaturge Build.
  • cathrynsoulwindcathrynsoulwind Member Posts: 15 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    The trouble I'm having as a solo CW on this fight is with ST not reducing the cd on shield anymore. I can cast AS again almost immediately, but I have to wait for shield to come back up. Very annoying. I end up with a lot of aggro trying to keep mobs off the healer. Using ST and Icy Terrain cause me to get aggo and that in turn causes me to get attacked by everything and their dog while trying to cast AS again. I guess this could be eliminated by running two CW, but it's kinda lame.
  • copticonecopticone Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    The trouble I'm having as a solo CW on this fight is with ST not reducing the cd on shield anymore. I can cast AS again almost immediately, but I have to wait for shield to come back up. Very annoying. I end up with a lot of aggro trying to keep mobs off the healer. Using ST and Icy Terrain cause me to get aggo and that in turn causes me to get attacked by everything and their dog while trying to cast AS again. I guess this could be eliminated by running two CW, but it's kinda lame.

    There are/were only two Lame strategies. 1) Using the exploit. 2) Using 2DCs for Astral Shield stacking. Anything else is basically what your party can manage with. I know some people may take it personally when stacking their class, the feeling that you're probably can't do it on your own and so we need another, but you shouldn't look at it that way. NC Draco fight mechanic is beyond broken. There is no way anyone can convince me that the designers intended it to be complete in this manner. So if you need to stack 2 CWs, do it. There is no shame in that, any more than stacking 2 TRs on the boss. Hec even stacking 2 DCs now is OK in my book, if the party can compensate the huge loss of dps.
    Check out my personal Nerf Proof T2 Thaumaturge Build.
  • apehceapehce Member Posts: 18 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    Okay, first off, a tip on timing the bump: After casting Arcane Singularity, watch when the sphere starts expanding! When it starts, you are free to successfully bump.

    Personally, I think that with the arcane mastery not improving shield's cooldown now, you need 2 CWs for this. I might be wrong, but doing it with only 1 CW feels to me like it's gonna be hardcore, <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> mode.
  • cathrynsoulwindcathrynsoulwind Member Posts: 15 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    apehce wrote: »
    Okay, first off, a tip on timing the bump: After casting Arcane Singularity, watch when the sphere starts expanding! When it starts, you are free to successfully bump.

    Personally, I think that with the arcane mastery not improving shield's cooldown now, you need 2 CWs for this. I might be wrong, but doing it with only 1 CW feels to me like it's gonna be hardcore, <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> mode.

    Yes, that's what I think also. Shield is down for so long that the adds build up horribly.
  • almostsk8trxalmostsk8trx Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    I like to time it by looking at it this way:

    When the mobs go up into the singularity, they kind of do a flip. When the flip is finished, that is when I pop the shield.
  • luckwurstjoeluckwurstjoe Member Posts: 1 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    Hey together,

    my group and me (GF, 2x TR, CW, DC) were first time @ dracolich and never surrendered for more then 2 minutes.
    I saw a lot of vids, where they drop of the adds over the edge. We tried this, but the adds are stuck into a invisible wall and fall back into the area. So we don't have got a chance to kick them over the edge.

    Playing the adds down is also no option, since they spawn too fast and are too much.

    Anyone knows a strategy, that works for patch 3.2.x?
  • zaledrielzaledriel Member Posts: 4 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    First off you all are crazy, this is not the mechanic on how to beat these fights and trick or exploit game by throwing them over the railing? Sorry, but you need learn your class better, i can sit there and control adds and keep AS going constantly with the damage Im doing pre-patch, but now post patch CW's are now taking all threat over DC's and other classes have to be more attentive and do things the way there class was designed, post patch GF's now have to control more of the adds with CW's and CW's assisting with Dps on boss. TR's and GWF's(and helping with adds)are now dpsing boss. Just because i dont do an exploit doesnt make me or anybody else a bad CW, we just arent cheating the game as it's obvious if it were any other group of classes you wouldnt have this exploit. The mechanic of the fights are not designed and the only way you win, is witha CW timing everything perfectly to throw them over the railing....lol Learn to play your class properly...nuff said..
  • lemandallemandal Member Posts: 61
    edited June 2013
    If you're solo CW you could try to use tabbed Repel to cycle with shield. The AP gain is not as good as tabbed Entangling force but the cooldown is short. Ask your GF for Into the Fray if you lack AP.

    Also if you fail to push mobs over the fence, train in Foundry quests. I found Undead Arena (melee encounter) rather useful !
  • gunbahahagunbahaha Member, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 139
    edited June 2013
    If you're having trouble with the adds landing on the invisible wall you are most likely too close to the gate where the walls are higher to prevent exploiting.
  • marvelousjmarvelousj Member Posts: 13 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    Don't listen to these people saying shield when they are in the singularity. You will have a bad day if you do it that way. The singularity will spin them around then it DROPS them and you will see the damage. You want to hit the shield when it drops them and they will basically be on the ground when you hit your shield. I have become so good at it I don't even pay attention any more. I can attack the dracolich and shield them off the edge while not even looking at them. You should eventually develop a internal timer and not go by visual ques. Some mobs like spiders do not actually move while in a AS and just hover above the ground. There is I would estimate about a .5-.75 second window where you can still knock them off and if all else fails hit it as soon as you see the damage from AS and you should have no issues.
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