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Hi, I'm a Cleric and I object!
insertheals
Member Posts: 8 Arc User
Hokay, I know we've seen umpteen amounts of doom and gloom on the forums these days but, I want to add my 183 cents into the convo.
I've run a bunch of CN's today to check it out, I was solo healing CN all day errrryday before the patch, and today I've wiped an unbelievable amount of times.
They seem to want to diversify group make up by making each class viable in dungeoning (fair enough) hence the nerf to double AS to make it not imba (fair enough) what isn't fair enough is 6 seconds where I'm scrambling to keep everyone alive, BUT when the AS finally gets up it has to heal everyone back up to full health and mitigate the damage that's coming in. It simply cannot cope! Not to mention that, but our other skills are barely able to keep people alive during that 6 second downtime. But that is another issue entirely.
I AM PERFECTLY FINE WITH THE NERF TO DOUBLE AS. BUT PLEASE LET OUR SHIELD LAST FOR 15 FREAKING SECONDS!
This has been my 183 cents worth.
I've run a bunch of CN's today to check it out, I was solo healing CN all day errrryday before the patch, and today I've wiped an unbelievable amount of times.
They seem to want to diversify group make up by making each class viable in dungeoning (fair enough) hence the nerf to double AS to make it not imba (fair enough) what isn't fair enough is 6 seconds where I'm scrambling to keep everyone alive, BUT when the AS finally gets up it has to heal everyone back up to full health and mitigate the damage that's coming in. It simply cannot cope! Not to mention that, but our other skills are barely able to keep people alive during that 6 second downtime. But that is another issue entirely.
I AM PERFECTLY FINE WITH THE NERF TO DOUBLE AS. BUT PLEASE LET OUR SHIELD LAST FOR 15 FREAKING SECONDS!
This has been my 183 cents worth.
Post edited by insertheals on
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If you can't do a Castle Never when you're overgeared, with an experienced team and using CN set weapons then either the fight is too hard, or the classes too weak. Make a decision.
Easy, 100% win solution:
Change the final Feat of the "Faithful" tree from "Gain a 4th Divinity Pip" to "Increase Duration of Astral Shield" or "Reduce Cooldown of Astral Shield"
Or, since we're running Sun Burst anyway, give it a second Divinity effect "When cast in Divine Mode, reduces the cooldown of Astral Shield by 5 seconds"
-Fixed Aggro
-Made it much harder to heal
-Completely and brutally murdered PUGs
I will never queue for a group ever again, I will only be running with 4 other people that I know, and that have Teamspeak.
Know what this has shown me after 11 hours of playing? F-this game, these guys are clueless and don't care about their playerbase. They want to make clerics as boring as possible and 1 dimensional as possible. This game is no longer worth my time, screw it. I'll go to another game where I'm not regulated to a bloody heal bot with only 3 choices available to me if I want to succeed.
Groups have to utilize a tank, and clerics can no longer heal through red circles. Other than that, business as usual--did the same shortcuts and mass trash pulls into knockoffs. I had to lean more heavily on Divine Armor and Healing Word, but I haven't had to use my free respec yet.
In short, I think PvE will be fine; PvP is a different story.
Yes you are correct and same with me i greatly relied on Divine armor rather than HG, as for PVP....... sadly but also true...... T_T
i feel that our class is now 'obliged' to cater for that 5 second downtime of AS now, i feel its mandatory to use FF in those 5 seconds which feels so clunky, i no longer have the freedom with my 3rd spell as it is now FF or i guess il try HW/BoH. having FF means i cant use it on CD anymore for smooth divinity or AP but it has to be used as divineFF within those 5 seconds which just feels horrible.
in all honesty its just made me feel that i dont wanna play DC anymore it feels completely different and i dont at all like it tbh. double AS was OP. 15 sec duration AS was NOT.
You can cast Forgemaster's flame before Astral Shield. You can reliably get FFlames CD down to 10s. By doing this, you generate divinity with flame as Shield is up, and as the Shield goes down your FFlame would most likely be off CD. You can only do this at the start of an engagement though, and pray that your team is strong enough where you can melt mobs easily.
Still boring as f*ck though.
PVP: How to make your life less miserable as a Devoted Clerics -- Still in it's Unfinished Glory
Dragon
TR not doing enough damage? Lower the defese, or raise his attack.
CW's not controlling enough? Chains of Blazing Light!
Not killing mobs fast enough? Prophecy of Doom, Daunting Light, etc etc
Now... we don't have that choice. Astral Shield, Sun Burst, Healing-Encounter-of-your-Choice.
Basically, we don't have the tools to do our jobs and our toolbox isn't big enough.
SOLUTION:
Have a DIFFERENT encounter bar for when you're Channeling Divinity. You can have 3 Encounters normally, and then 3 different (Or the same) encounters on the Divine slot. I imagine each slot would have to share a cooldown to make it balanced, but this way we could have Astral Shield and Forgemasters in 2 Divine Slots, and Sun Burst in a non-Divine.
That would give is THREE slots to customize as we see fit. Need a bit of extra healing? Slot it in! Want to lay down some debuffs? Sure! Wanna help things get dead? You can do that if you want~
exactly this!
It's not all on our shoulders, however. Both GF and GWF have excellent survival abilities they can use in the 5-second window. There's also singularity, steal time, and smoke bomb, all of which reduce/prevent red circles. It will get better as other classes learn to adapt.
I totally agree. It's similar to how someone else put it earlier for me. As a cleric since this update, we don't have the defense to be a tank-healer, we don't have the DPS to be a combat-healer, and we don't have the healing to be a healer-healer.
So what ARE we supposed to be since this patch?
I mean, to me, it wouldn't be so bad except that I now have to burn through divinity in seconds in order to close the gap created in Astral Shield. 5 seconds doesn't seem like a lot, but trying to cover it in such a way where I'm also trying to regain the divinity I just spent is next to impossible, and certainly not something I would call easy, nor needing "more skill" (even though more skill now comes into it). What I used to be able to do (and no I never relied I the double AS circle aside from the one time it happened by accident in PvP) in healing a PUG group alone is impossible for me at this time. I literally use up all my divinity within one "cycle" of my skills, usually FF -> AS -> (maybe Bastion if needed, but not most of the time) -> to FF -> back to AS (or the other way around occassionally, with AS first), and ALL of those skills REQUIRE divinity to heal, so that's all my pips gone in the length of time it takes to press 2-3 buttons and one 15 second cooldown, I would arguably say that PWI is asking me to spend all my divinity in 20 seconds, and somehow RECOVER that same divinity in the same or less time WHILE ALSO STILL HEALING. I don't see how to make up the difference in recovering enough divinity to make it sustainable through something long like a boss fight (the adds kill me FAST since I'm throwing all my heals at the party and not myself).
So sunburst on cooldown, AS after a few seconds of the fight (so you don't waste ANY of the heal ticks on healthy people), then get forgemasters ready for when AS drops. Might be able to fit another sunburst in, rinse, repeat. Welcome to healbot-time!
But hey, at least you don't got all teh aggro, right?
Perhaps though that's been more of a failing of my party, because I still draw way too much aggro since patch. But I will give it another shot, I just need to find a few people I can count on for raids now
Sadly I have to agree with the above statement. ran a sp with dc 2cw's 2 rogues. the defenses of the cw's where horrible they got one to 2 hit most times as was on cd, and these guys were geared in t2's and ancients as well as I am,i put my gems into def to get it to 2300 thinking I could take a few hits outside of my own as. this was viable till yesterday, I felt as if I wasted money on gems and time trying up my survivability in dungeon's.
either buff our defense or reduce the monsters dam but as is it's ridiculous, I could careless about double as.and I don't like the feel of other moves on my bar such as forgemaster why should I be forced now to equip it
Sounds like a great idea. Would really fit the "leader" class description. Would def allow some versality in terms of buff/debuff, added dps or additional control (not that we have many spells for this, maybe just chains). I'm sure other class players would throw a hissy fit about us being able to slot 6 encounters though
No margin for error AT ALL, barely taking into account, knockdowns, knockbacks, server lag and a plethora of other stuns/snares/silences is too harsh.
#Clericsforchange
It's not really slotting 6 though, slot 1 shares a cooldown with Divine Slot 1 etc etc, so it's... more like being able to rapidly swap Encounters. I know CW's that swap spells during certain boss fights, it's not that different.
Nope, you can do it as long as the encounter slot is not on cooldown. Still drag and drop. It will go on cooldown when slotting it in combat though.
PVP: How to make your life less miserable as a Devoted Clerics -- Still in it's Unfinished Glory
Dragon
It became extremely hard to keep everyone alive, not to mention if one of the other classes is not doing his/her job right and they die, then you are automatically the one to blame.
& what's more annoying is that, I think the Devs are leaving us to coop with it over time which might be just impossible.
But honestly, the last dungeon run I did was so miserable I've been finding excuses not to play. Not only will every other class have to learn to replay to survive (essentially) without decent heals, but I'm sick of being screamed at for being: "<font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> Cleric", "Cleric that can't heal", "Idiot", "incompetent", ect. (which I was called all of in one Epic Karru run in broken English from a French guy) when I'm doing the absolute best I can and, because of things that are outside of my control, I'm simply not effective anymore. It's just not fun. I saw another quote I like in a forum recently:
"... realize that healing potions are a better Cleric than you are now..."
I think it about sums the situation up. Maybe AS needed a nerf (I personally don't know if I agree with this), but the entire class needed some buffing in healing ability to cope with it, and we just don't have that ability. Maybe people with better gear can do better than I can, but right now I can't heal well enough in my PvP T1 (that I got as a crutch to get out of my greens until I could get REAL T1-2) to make getting better gear a possibility, so I'm in a catch-22. For now, I'm just content to leave healing in the game to two things: Clerics who are better geared and better than I am, and the healing potions that are better than all of us.
If your running without a GF or atleast a GWF then I expect your pt to dance a lot. Clerics hardly even die post patch because aggro's on DPS not on us. I dont see why you should worry bout the 5 sec downtime. Make sure the tank's doing his job and youll be fine.
Perfect World seems to want to get rid of parties that have multiple Clerics in them by removing the ability for Astral Shield to stack (which everyone agrees needed done). Further, they are apparently trying to force more variety into parties by buffing the other classes, like Great Weapon Fighter and Guardian Fighter, to be more effective, since before this patch they were fairly useless in dungeon runs thanks to things like a broken threat system.
However, Perfect World then makes it apparent that they DO want two Clerics in a party by making any undergeared (my meaning by this is people not in T2) noneffective as solo healers, especially in PUG groups, and far less effective in premade groups that play together all the time. Even fully geared Clerics will tell you that healing with the nerf is POSSIBLE, but a party can still wipe at the slightest provocation, like the Cleric getting downed or killed, running out of divinity, ect.
If that isn't a glaring inconsistency in what Perfect World is trying to achieve I'm not sure what is.
Still further, you have the fact that even though many GFs and GWFs SHOULD be taking more aggro now, many in PUG groups are not because they don't know HOW. Up until a couple of days ago they COULDN'T take aggro to save their lives (and many died because of this), so they will have to relearn the game in many respects. How many PUG GWs and GWFs will be able to do this when they won't be able to survive the learning process in a level 60 dungeon with a Cleric that heals less well than their HP potions?
Saying, "Make sure the tank is doing his job and you will be fine" is a non-answer, even if it is true that a party now needs a good tank that is doing their job. It doesn't address the fact that even if Astral Shield is now working as INTENDED, working as intended doesn't mean working WELL. Understand here that I'm not pushing that AS be put back exactly as it was or raging about it or doomsaying. I'm only saying that this intended mechanic still needs rebalancing, because even if you slap the "Support Healer" title on a Cleric, the fact remains that we are still the ONLY healers in the game at this time, and are not given the tools to be effective as such, especially if it is true that Perfect World wants more variety in a parties. Having to slate 2 spaces to Clerics every run just to survive doesn't add any variety that wasn't already there before patch, it's just switching the doubles out to another class.