Thanks to all the Rogues trying to figure this all out!!!! Really.

oregonize · June 2013

I spent a large part of today trying to spec and respec into something that I thought was newish and useful and I now have to go to work. There is a lot of new info, most of which is really vague and hard to apply with any sort of certainty without extensively testing and I have neither the respec tokens nor the time today to keep exploring. Just wanted to thank everyone who cares about this and encourage all to keep up the good work! Lots of people are just waiting for the next main build to emerge so they can respec and feel good about themselves, but I think these "nerf" parties are actually quite fun and worth taking part in. Anyway, good luck all!

m3atba9 · June 2013

/2nd-ed

Honestly I am sitting in game with a "blank" character waiting for the first updated guide to get posted.

Yes I know... its sad...

oregonize · June 2013

m3atba9 wrote: »

/2nd-ed

Honestly I am sitting in game with a "blank" character waiting for the first updated guide to get posted.

Yes I know... its sad...

Its not sad, a respec costs a lot and it is looking like its going to take a lot of those tokens to truly test things and start posting builds that accurately reflect things as they are now...there are lots of people already doing some great work!

m3atba9 · June 2013

True... but I am seriously chomping at the bit to get going again. $:\$

eikoon · June 2013

metzli is trying out scoundrel during the next days - but as it looks now his actual build will remain the same and stay on top (check out his post) time will tell. but one thing for sure - can't appreciate his work enough!

burninnate · June 2013

Catching up on it now... not sure if it will work well for me since I am not much for dungeon delving at this point. Getting cooked on the last few quests I have at 60. Thinking hard about Banelorne's Stealth-Based build, but I am not sure how desireable it is for eventually moving on to delves.

d3fst4 · June 2013

ye my build is like metzlis different in a few things, but I dont know... Been in a dungeon with 2 GF, one of those had just the pvp set on with 50% socks and has done much more dmg then I... smth is not like before

I was used to be the Nr one DD, yes indeed thats why I picked this class, to punch the sht out of everything, but now its like I have 2 toothpicks in my hands and trying to do some dmg...

And I wont start sharing my new PVP experience... its ridicules!

Luckily I got a GF, too... so I can play this class till the next nerf

so long...

Ps.: @CS Iam not complaining abt the 60% less dmg with Shocking Execution, hmm ok its an Execution Skill that doesnt execute anymore, I have to admit though the dmg it has done before patch was huuuuge and had to be nerfed. But if u take of the dmg of the rogue than make him a bit more mobile and survival... for instance who has to stay in place to throw some knifes, I mean throwing a knife while running isnt a hard task... and Duellist Flurry in the 2nd stage still doesnt stick on the target when he dodges away, but I still stick on a god daamn NPC when any knocking class is pushing it from a cliff... makes no sense to me... think abt it

solsol1337 · June 2013

I think for an initial test I will just dps a dummy for a few minutes as each spec and use those logs to see if they're comparable....luckily we got a free respec token with the patch.

This is the scoundrel build I think is probably the best. http://nwcalc.com/tr?b=p5n:4yqrc:6rcn,1x09i2i:60000:6uzz1:b0000&h=0

You want to be in stealth often, but not for very long, as it only really benefits by adding CA if you don't already have it.

eikoon · June 2013

so that's the build which will compete with "std" executioner?

let's sum up for people who don't want to mouseover everything:

+ 20% ap gain during stealth
+ aggro reduce feat or se feat
+ 25 crit severity (while stealthed)
+ 15 crit severity (dm)
+ 5% crit (for the whole group!)
+ critical overrun
+ bleed (DF)

vs

+ 20% more effectiveness of ca
+ 35% chance to deal 20% more non crit dmg
+ 10% flourish and cos dmg + 2.5% cos dmg bonus per stack
+ blitz and dazing reducing targets defense by 10%
+ encounter 15% chance to grant 15% of our ap
+ for 10 secs after stealth next encounter hits for 15% additional damage

same

+ at-wills have 5% chance to reduce cd on recharging encounters (by 1 sec)

solsol1337 · June 2013

Basically it will come down to if the AP regeneration is high enough to maintain maybe...40%+ uptime on lurkers. Maybe stacking more recovery would be beneficial. You do get quite a few buffs to using encounters though with the scoundrel spec, and can add a 30% buff to your damage on the target yourself.

On the other hand you gain buckets of CS as executioner, and duelist's flurry is probably still better than sly flourish, but the gap may be a lot smaller now.

On a side note, is anyone else having issues with the NW launcher? I can't seem to get it to open.

eikoon · June 2013

yeah the launcher takes a very long time to load - but normally it pops up if one's waiting long enough

warkupoz · June 2013

It's having a weird issue I'm not sure how to fix yet. It OPENS, but you can't see it, even though it's shown as active in your taskbar. One of the things you can do: When you open the launcher you are defaulted to entering in your password. So even though you can't SEE the launcher, type in your password while it is "active", and hit enter. Your game should start updating or start playing. This was happening to my step father and that's how we "fixed" it.

anothersorrow · June 2013

After i went scoundrel and scoundrel/executioner with 21/21/21 ability scores i changed it because i had not enough burst in pvp
after that i switched to full dex and str and went that path

http://nwcalc.com/tr?b=cn4:2hwcg:5m9s,1xi1i3k:6u000:6u000:b55u1&h=1

epic burst . good critical strike

i lost a lot from not including deadly momentum but as i said im a pvper mostly and i think i can cover the diference with a greater vorpal that im trying to create.

Tried to get as much ap gain as i could due to the fact i use ma gear for pvp.

solsol1337 · June 2013

So here's what I have got from testing on dummies:
With a decent bleed crit (14.5k) I was maintaining about 13k dps.
In a scoundrel build using Sly Flourish I have not been able to break 7500 yet. I am still testing a few things out. Also I do not have enough recovery to really support the spec I think. Need to drop a lot of my crit for recovery.

But ya, first impressions: Executioner is still on top by a long shot, as long as your bleed crits.

Second Impressions: Using a scoundrel build with Duelist's Flurry is probably at least competitive, if not better than executioner. Drop the 5 skill points buffing flourish and take the 20% ap regen from the top tree.

Third Impressions: Overrun critical is like nimble blade, except it scales with crit and is therefore better. The scoundrel build is likely stronger for trash / aoe since it buffs AP regen and encounter damage, and also probably has better "average" damage, since the max output of executioner will depend on you getting an overrun critical critical bleed.

So...final thoughts: Any build that uses Duelist's Flurry will probably be at least relatively competitive, even the full stealth build. For single target executioner still has the highest theoretical output. Scoundrel is more consistant, and with lots of recovery maybe better? Sly Flourish, even with a 10% buff, and no deadly momentum from flurry, is still terrible compared to flurry.

Sabatour feats do not buff dps so it's still not a pve spec at all (other than soloing).

eikoon · June 2013

so to keep it up2date for our lazy rogue mates:

Executioner http://reyva.com/resources/neverwinter-powers-feat-simulator.9/#crC34IXu0B62QnW2wXjulFZpVhMpee5Z1TxReRRec32zjUBECtNrAKBfIZskPFa5ZvMT5AdHO

+ aggro reduce feat or se feat
+ 25 crit severity (while stealthed)
+ 15 crit severity (dm)
+ 5% crit (for the whole group!)
+ overrun critical

Scoundrel http://reyva.com/resources/neverwinter-powers-feat-simulator.9/#bEnbo7BWW3VscgRuIz7zRyMv9pwi04ZdUtoX7douNVc9CB7AWS70fiJDWsmJe4iiI

+ 20% more effectiveness of ca
+ 35% chance to deal 20% more non crit dmg
+ blitz and dazing reducing targets defense by 10%
+ encounter 15% chance to grant 15% of our ap
+ for 10 secs after stealth next encounter hits for 15% additional damage

same (Scoundrel and Executioner)

+ at-wills have 5% chance to reduce cd on recharging encounters (by 1 sec)
+ 20% ap gain during stealth
+ bleed (DF)

regarding stats: a switch from crit to recov (guess arpen remains #1). do you have any early values on how much recov might be needed?
...and what about rotation and encounters with scoundrel?

anothersorrow · June 2013

i chose #1 with the aggro feature works pvpve

eikoon · June 2013

that might be another factor - how do both builds compare pvp wise, important since gauntlgyrm is pve - pvp - pvpve in one and you won't always refeat.

willstr · June 2013

Has anyone tried stacking bleeds first then using sly flourish till they tick off, since applying more will only replace them, and DF base damage is much less, will it give a good damage with executioner build? it an maybe be a good strategic help that stacks tick more slowly cause we can use that time to hit with sly or get our encounters back up.
this can be a balancing thing, where out attention from at will damage is distributed to raw damage and encounters' damage..while helping others fight mobs as well

solsol1337 · June 2013

The problem with trying to weave flourishes is that your deadly momentum will fall off. And probably your bleed if you plan to use any encounters at all (which you will definitely be doing). This also leaves you less wiggle room for moment, since your window to refresh your bleed is smaller. Maintaining your bleed is still the number 1 dps priority.

shazanti · June 2013

Metz I see your link to the proposed equiv Scoundrel feats/powers but what encounter/rotation gets close to your Execution build?

solsol1337 · June 2013

The exact same rotation as the cookie cutter execution build, except using dazing strike instead of lashing blade.

Thanks to all the Rogues trying to figure this all out!!!! Really.

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