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Mark, what a piece of junk class ability!

lordkrononlordkronon Member Posts: 2 Arc User
edited June 2013 in The Militia Barracks
Class abilities should be something that defines the class. GF got a debuff that's so weak you don't even know its up if it weren't for the red cross. And to make it worse, its removed as soon as you take damage (which would be fine for a DPS class, but very counter-intuitive for a tank).

Besides, I tend to keep up marks just by charging around (the at-will charge), which makes it if possible even worse.

Can we please get something useful for our class ability? You know, something that defines our class, like stealth for rogues. Or remove it, put Guard on TAB and give us a dodge on SHIFT.
Post edited by lordkronon on

Comments

  • dkcandydkcandy Member Posts: 1,555 Bounty Hunter
    edited June 2013
    Never used it. Wait till Threatening Rush and use that to mark targets.
  • drogon4drogon4 Member Posts: 22 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    lordkronon wrote: »
    Can we please get something useful for our class ability? You know, something that defines our class, like stealth for rogues. Or remove it, put Guard on TAB and give us a dodge on SHIFT.

    ^^This would be lovely.
  • dkcandydkcandy Member Posts: 1,555 Bounty Hunter
    edited June 2013
    What I would like to know is why TR has (2) Abilities that prevent damage:

    1 - Dodge
    2 - Impossible to Catch

    GWF has 1 + 50% Dmg reduction
    1 - Dodge
    2 - Unstoppable Force

    - GF - Are the tanks but we only have block which is easily broken and takes awhile to charge back up to 100%. Within that time frame a TR or GWF stam will be fully recharged & skills.
  • lordkrononlordkronon Member Posts: 2 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    The more I think about it, the more I like to remove Mark from TAB (leave it as secondary effect on some abilities like Threatening Rush), put Guard on TAB and dodge on SHIFT. That would make our TAB ability to be truly class defining, and increase our survivability and mobility a little as well. It should also be a fairly simple fix for the developers, but might require a little balancing in PvP.

    Its so annoying when you find yourself inside a big red circle, and your Guard meter is empty. Nothing to do but wait for the pain (unlike other classes that usually can dodge away).
  • ayrouxayroux Member Posts: 4,271 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    lordkronon wrote: »
    The more I think about it, the more I like to remove Mark from TAB (leave it as secondary effect on some abilities like Threatening Rush), put Guard on TAB and dodge on SHIFT. That would make our TAB ability to be truly class defining, and increase our survivability and mobility a little as well. It should also be a fairly simple fix for the developers, but might require a little balancing in PvP.

    Its so annoying when you find yourself inside a big red circle, and your Guard meter is empty. Nothing to do but wait for the pain (unlike other classes that usually can dodge away).

    From a gameplay perspective this makes sense, from a class practical perspective it doesnt. GF dont have the same mobility because were wearing heavy armor. We are supposed to be a damage sponge. The reason it seems broken atm is because a defensive GF cant currently hold agro AND groups are not rewarded for having or needing a defensive GF. This means Gfs spec offensive meaning we are not as good of a damage sponge so these abilities hit harder than they should.

    Also, an idea that COULD work that I have thought of is an ability called "Toe to Toe" (or something like that) that is used in melee range but it "roots" both the GF and the target in place for 1 second (2s for rank 2 and 3s for rank 3) making them stand toe to toe with the GF. This would be usefull in PVE due to boss fights, requires skill to use (cant dodge red) and is doing what the class intended to do.

    It is also useful for PVP since classes couldnt not kite and would then cause them to think about letting a GF get close to them. It actually seems OP in pvp so maybe tune it a little. Maybe allow the GF to be CC but still neither can move for 3 seconds...
  • llfritzllllfritzll Member Posts: 215 Bounty Hunter
    edited June 2013
    lordkronon wrote: »
    Its so annoying when you find yourself inside a big red circle, and your Guard meter is empty. Nothing to do but wait for the pain (unlike other classes that usually can dodge away).

    if your guard meter is empty their stamina meter would be empty.
    you blocked a couple attacks and your meter is empty, they dodge a couple and theirs is empty.
    just sayin'


    anyhow i do agree mark is a terrible class skill.
    chances are they will be like other mmo games though and just try to buff the <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> out of it instead of changing it.



    due to block and charge skills getting a sprint is pretty unlikely. the GF is made to be more stationary while the GWF is made to be the sprinter. block works better on big hits you know are coming, deflect works better on lots of little hits from trash... i am sure you can see where im going with this.
  • snowballosnowballo Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    Like the 100th thread about this and once again I ll agree.
    Guardian Tab ability is utterly bad and close to useless.

    Fix the guardian block issues 1st, then change this utterly bad skill to be something else.
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  • c45hcr0pc45hcr0p Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 45
    edited June 2013
    I don't understand you complainers. Mark is so OP in PvP.
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  • agbadehanagbadehan Member Posts: 74
    edited June 2013
    dkcandy wrote: »
    What I would like to know is why TR has (2) Abilities that prevent damage:

    1 - Dodge
    2 - Impossible to Catch

    GWF has 1 + 50% Dmg reduction
    1 - Dodge
    2 - Unstoppable Force

    - GF - Are the tanks but we only have block which is easily broken and takes awhile to charge back up to 100%. Within that time frame a TR or GWF stam will be fully recharged & skills.

    GWF does not have dodge roll. =| Impossible to catch is up for like 4 seconds.
  • bonnoujibonnouji Member Posts: 1 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    I agree with marks, and any ability that applies marks. Though, I'm kind of confused on how marks are removed. It says at the bottom of the description for marks that "Guarded" attacks do not remove marks. Does this mean normal attacks and getting damaged removes marks? If so, then that's ****ing <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>. I don't mind that doing certain/receiving certain actions causes marks to be removed - attacking and being attacked - but at least make it so we can manage when the marks get removed (e.g. attacking x amount of times causes marks to be removed, or sustaining x amount of damage causes marks to be removed). I can tank a dungeon and have mark up on all the mobs during a fight without having to guard, and other times I can tank a dungeon where I have to constantly apply mark on mobs because they're magically being removed immediately. It's also interesting how feature Enhanced Mark allows us to generate even more threat when attacking a marked target, yet we get skills that apply marks to multiple targets (e.g. the At-Will at 35 points and the AoE taunt at 10 points). So in order to not make marks dissipate we need to keep guard up and use the guard at-wills, yet guard can only be up for so long and the guard at-wills are only single target. It doesn't make sense. I have constantly lost aggro on marked mobs because I'm not taking advantage of the "attacking now provides additional threat" from the Enhanced Mark feature due to the fact that I'm guarding and being forced to single target in order to not lose the bloody marks.
  • multiplyemultiplye Member Posts: 1 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    bonnouji wrote: »
    I have constantly lost aggro on marked mobs because I'm not taking advantage of the "attacking now provides additional threat" from the Enhanced Mark feature due to the fact that I'm guarding and being forced to single target in order to not lose the bloody marks.
    The primary guard at-will hits multiple targets.

    The important part of marks is the small period where they are unremovable. Sometimes, you intentionally take a hit to reapply a mark and give your guard meter some time to recover.
  • zakarayzakaray Member Posts: 18 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    If you haven't noticed that your mark goes away when youare hit you are pretty bad. Just sayin. I agree it is pretty dumb but the worse thing is getting slammed or knocked down on a boas and losing agro. Other than that, its easy as **** to reaply and my markes targeta are debuffed so its pretty awesome actually
  • jaymadiv#8056 jaymadiv Member Posts: 423 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    I've said it before, I'll say it again.

    Enforced Threat should be the TAB ability. damaging snap-taunt that marks in AOE is perfect for a Class-Defining ability and it'll allow some more flexibility in loadouts.

    hell, if you need to balance it, take away the damage, increase the threat and the snap taunt, and remove the 5-enemy limit.

    and call it "Challenge".
    image
  • cordyceps88cordyceps88 Member Posts: 1 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    As a GF(not girlfriend lol i hate this class name :) ) replace the guard with buff that makes us immune the control effects, daze, knockback etc. and clear all debuffs on us.This makes more sense as a tank. As a 45 Tank atm not only the mark too much skills have to readjusted. I will share my opinions;
    1- Daily skills needs to adjsuted. I prefer Figters recovery because its my only healing skill.Crushing Surge is waste of feat power. I don't need 200 heal while eating 800 also have 17k HP.
    2- Taunts have to be more effective and we have to see who is attacking us and who is not.
    3- Guard must be work properly. Generally i eat alot of damage while guarding i have to re-guard again.Weird uh...
    4-Thats the last. We need some proper debuffs and auras.We have to assist our party members. We are nothing but a self defence class atm.Knights challenge or into the fray is not enough.Taunts not last longer, enforced threat is not enough(use it with frontline surge its good combo btw)
    Those facts are great holdbacks for GF's on my opinion.I hope they rebalance the GF's.
  • etherealjetherealj Member Posts: 1,091 Bounty Hunter
    edited June 2013
    Would trade block for dodge in a heart beat.

    Mark is completely useless.
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  • mehguy138mehguy138 Member Posts: 1,803 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    May be make GF's Tab ability a Taunt? In PVE you force an enemy to attack you, no matter how much aggro your teammates had generated, the mob will immediately attack a GF. In PVP taunted target deals full damage to you and half damage to anyone else for a short time or until the target attacks you. Make it CD like 8 seconds. I know everyone here wants to PWN NUBS by dealing damage, but this change would really make GF a tank in PVE and a lifesaver in PVP.
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  • etherealjetherealj Member Posts: 1,091 Bounty Hunter
    edited June 2013
    Combine tab mark with knights challenge and prevent a hit from a marked target from knocking the GF down.

    100% extra damage taken but no knockdown as well as snap agro.
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  • silknightsilknight Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild Users Posts: 199
    edited June 2013
    Mark should be a debuff automatically applied to anything hit by the GF, by any of his abilities, for a set amount of time. Then give them a short range dodge.
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