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The devoted cleric in PVP from a newbie
renegadedrifter
Member Posts: 1 Arc User
My cleric is level 45. I'm not elitist, I haven't done any end-game, I don't give a flying frack about my score at the end of a match since I only care if I win or lose a match. I play this game for fun, which seems like a lot of people take too seriously.
I am primarily healing focused. I find it strange that I see comments in PvP like "It's so nice to finally have heals" and "omg you're healing? Awesome!" which leads me to believe people either don't heal, or they just gave up on it. It strikes me as odd that someone would play a cleric and go damage focused. If you're going to play the primary healing class in a game, why aren't you healing?
ALL THAT ASIDE, there are a few fustrating elements I'd like to share from someone who doesn't have quite the same rage goggles that most everyone here seems to have.
When I engage the enemy in PvP, I try to bring out the most healing output possible. I will start by tagging all targets with astral seal, tag any friendlies with healing word, and then slam down a blue forgemaster's flame on the enemy with the most friendlies around it/attacking it. This effectively puts up to THREE simultaneous heals and heals over time on any of 1-4 friendlies.
Many times I am in PvP doing this combo, and if the enemy is chaotic enough I can keep my guys alive long enough for them to start focusing one... but most of the time my team mates will slowly get wittled down and killed despite pouring on all the healing my cleric can muster.
I am not angry at this fact, because I don't want to make my guys invincible. What I dislike is the fact that I can't replenish my team mates in any real way/shape/form unless they are getting the HAMSTER kicked out of them.
Astral seal does what it's supposed to, and I like the mechanic. However much my friends beat on a target, they get health back.
Forgemaster flame (blue) is an excellent sudden influx of health and a decent HOT afterwards. No real complaints on this skill at all.
Healing Word: Mostly useless. I have friendlies coming back to where I am with half health, and I can put all three charges of it on the person, plus the blue charge, and their health goes up by MAYBE one little bubble. In fights, the healing word HoT doesn't do squat. This ability should scale a LOT better so I can actually see it doing something.
Sunburst doesn't heal for much at all. I don't even use this heal in PvE simply because the heal just isn't powerful at all. When I'm getting hit for 900+ by most everyone, the pathetic 475 heal from sunburst doesn't make the skill worth having. I changed it out for the divine whatever that brings a beam from the sky.
One on one the cleric is awesome! I have faced many opponents and we have a decent stalemate where I can last in a fight and win sometimes. I can live long enough for help to arrive. KEEP IN MIND that the person I am facing isn't using potions or getting any healing, while I'm using all of my healing skills to stay in the fight. My healing seems pretty good but my damage is average-decent.
I am not complaining about this fact since I am heal focused and not really skilled in terms of damage.
What I dislike is the lack of real "oh ****" healing, and no way to really bring my friends back to health after they come to me for recovery. We just sit there, with them at low health, waiting for the enemy to return and hope to god they survive the alpha strike enough for my heals to hold them steady.
If we're going to be a healing class, could we have a real heal skill to recover from a fight?
I am primarily healing focused. I find it strange that I see comments in PvP like "It's so nice to finally have heals" and "omg you're healing? Awesome!" which leads me to believe people either don't heal, or they just gave up on it. It strikes me as odd that someone would play a cleric and go damage focused. If you're going to play the primary healing class in a game, why aren't you healing?
ALL THAT ASIDE, there are a few fustrating elements I'd like to share from someone who doesn't have quite the same rage goggles that most everyone here seems to have.
When I engage the enemy in PvP, I try to bring out the most healing output possible. I will start by tagging all targets with astral seal, tag any friendlies with healing word, and then slam down a blue forgemaster's flame on the enemy with the most friendlies around it/attacking it. This effectively puts up to THREE simultaneous heals and heals over time on any of 1-4 friendlies.
Many times I am in PvP doing this combo, and if the enemy is chaotic enough I can keep my guys alive long enough for them to start focusing one... but most of the time my team mates will slowly get wittled down and killed despite pouring on all the healing my cleric can muster.
I am not angry at this fact, because I don't want to make my guys invincible. What I dislike is the fact that I can't replenish my team mates in any real way/shape/form unless they are getting the HAMSTER kicked out of them.
Astral seal does what it's supposed to, and I like the mechanic. However much my friends beat on a target, they get health back.
Forgemaster flame (blue) is an excellent sudden influx of health and a decent HOT afterwards. No real complaints on this skill at all.
Healing Word: Mostly useless. I have friendlies coming back to where I am with half health, and I can put all three charges of it on the person, plus the blue charge, and their health goes up by MAYBE one little bubble. In fights, the healing word HoT doesn't do squat. This ability should scale a LOT better so I can actually see it doing something.
Sunburst doesn't heal for much at all. I don't even use this heal in PvE simply because the heal just isn't powerful at all. When I'm getting hit for 900+ by most everyone, the pathetic 475 heal from sunburst doesn't make the skill worth having. I changed it out for the divine whatever that brings a beam from the sky.
One on one the cleric is awesome! I have faced many opponents and we have a decent stalemate where I can last in a fight and win sometimes. I can live long enough for help to arrive. KEEP IN MIND that the person I am facing isn't using potions or getting any healing, while I'm using all of my healing skills to stay in the fight. My healing seems pretty good but my damage is average-decent.
I am not complaining about this fact since I am heal focused and not really skilled in terms of damage.
What I dislike is the lack of real "oh ****" healing, and no way to really bring my friends back to health after they come to me for recovery. We just sit there, with them at low health, waiting for the enemy to return and hope to god they survive the alpha strike enough for my heals to hold them steady.
If we're going to be a healing class, could we have a real heal skill to recover from a fight?
Post edited by renegadedrifter on
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Comments
Thats why they are getting nerfed which i disagree with.
Pvp balances ruining the mmo again.
IMHO this is what i would suggest:
1. the green healing beam from our at will, doesnt use up divinity power but instead generates it allowing a consistant single target heal (it doesnt heal for an amazing amount already, in fact if i have my healing word HoT and the beam on a target many times that person still dies depending on which class is dpsing my friendly)
2. Healing word needs a severe buff, as stated by OP, if i put this on a target one full Healing word heals for maybe 10% of someones hp and thats over 5 second or so (i am not sure the exact duration as the ui really doesnt show this info clearly) any dps class or ever a DC can do more damage than that in 1 ability or a couple of auto attacks (at wills) almost instantly
3. BoH is ok in terms of healing but its CD kinda cancels out how good it is in terms of HPS.
4. Astral shield - truthfully this spell is what all the fuss is about, when you have the feat points, it reduces dmg friendlies take while also healing them for a very respectable amount, the problem here is that it combines strong damage reduction and healing into 1 ability, this in my opinion is actually a very good OH S**T button for when a huge team fight happens and you want to try turn it in your favour and i think the CD "nerf" is actually a very good change i would actually give this a 15 second up time and a 45 sec CD.
the main problem is this although post nerf astral shield will be in a good place, the rest of the DC kit is still all over the place and the long CD of encounter abilities and the lackluster healing they provide doesnt fit at all with the huge burst style of PvP, a healer who is left to free cast should be able to easily keep a friendly alive who is involved in a 1vs1 using your own healing cooldowns to counter the enemies cd's, or maybe even a 1vs2 if you and your friendly play smart, but excluding astral shield i find myself unable to do much given my tools and the current Bursty state of pvp and trying to heal someone in pvp right now feels like trying to put out a house fire with a water pistol...
truthfully all healing needs to be massively buffed as no healing spell in game (outside of AS) comes close to being able to compete with the damage being done by 1 class let alone an organised pvp group, if aoe heals stay with the same cooldowns they need to be able to heal for 40% of some1's hp, single target healing (our right click at will in divinity) and our HoT need huge buffs our HoT should tick for 10% of some1's hp a tick not 10% over its full duration, and our at will 5%, so that if both are on 1 target thats 15% a tick (which is good enough but not game breaking in any way considering our HoT has 3 charges and our beam can be in 1 target at a time) also as stated previously using the beam should build up divinity not use it, if i have 3 stacks and i use 3x encounter abilities on people i cannot even use the beam and as stated many times the HoT alone heals for nothing right now, so i have 2 choices, dont use beam and use divinity on encounter abilities which dont really do all that much in terms of healing increase, or dont use encounter abilities in divinity mode and spam healing beam, which fully charged will allow a good 15 secs of healing for a massive 30% of some1's hp total, both options kinda suck
TL : DR-
astral shield change is a good thing (if they fix our other abilites)
divinity healing beam needs to generate divinity not use it
single target heals need a massive buff
aoe heals need a cd reduction/ no cd reduction but buff healing done
edit for spelling mistakes
what do you all think?
The cleric in D&D never was focused on pure healing. It was more than a heavy armored caster focusing on buffing, protection with strong offensive power in higher levels. To throw out heals was only one aspect. Therefore, in D&D 4.0 there is no healer architype. Only a leader one, which count in clerics.
In fact, D&D 4.0 (in contrast to the previous versions) goes a path, where every class can virtually heal itself, reducing the need for a healer in group. Imho, that's a very good thing, because a group becomes less dependent from a healer.
I agree, that the DC need some buff in his role as a leader, but I don't want to see it reduced to a group heal bot. All damage spells of the cleric should have a secondary effect that buff or heal the group at the same time, like it is already done for forgemasters flame. Cleric should also give much more buffs to the group, like an AE buff to the targets main attribute. At the same time, DC should be able to debuff enemies much stronger then in the current state.
I would be fine with this as well.
I never stated it should be pigeonholed into healing only, but this is not D&D 4ed this is an MMO based on D&D and as i stated the type of pvp in this game and the DC and its healing side dont match which is why i think healing needs a slight rework and a big buff, if you chose to be a group buffer/debuffer while dealing dmg, what i suggested wont affect you, if you chose to focus mainly on the healing side then we need to see some improvements, i am not asking them to change the class, just slightly modify the healing.
This guy is a troll and a liar
in 60 its even worse because now all have gear compared to you
Also anyone in pvp knows the just fight abit until the have the daily ready and then icesword the cleric og whatever the rogue oneshots with. Then they rush the other team with there superior damage. There is a reason the best team in this game is any combination of rogues and wizard until you reach 5 in a team
Let me correct that for you
Team with a DC in PVP has a massive disadvantage after corssing 50. Fact.
This is true it makes you marginally better, it raises you from useless to dead in 3 seconds.
and it makes PVE alot easier, but it does not help in pvp-
if you use Forgemasters flame, Healing word thingy and Astral shield all with 3 divinity which is close to impossible to get in pvp before dieing over and over again. you would still not last that long, its not like you can outheal damage from a single person still.
The best way to play cleric effectively is to go the character screen and make a Control wizard or rogue then pvp on them.
If you buff healing too much, you will force a group to slot a cleric, because any group that don't have a cleric will get insta-loss against any group bringing in a cleric - not only in PvP but also in PvE.
I have played alot of MMORPGs following the concept of a main or pure healer class. Usually in those MMORPGs, there statistically are only a low amount of people willing to play a healer class, because it mostly puts the player in the "background". The shortage of main healers in a MMORPG finally result in three things:
- time consumng group building because the group fall or rise with one class (healer)
- One player's skill is essential to the survival of the group
- highly imbalanced causal vs. pro gamer experiences, since set up groups usually do not have problems to get a healer
A much better comcept is that every class can heal itself for a limited amount. The "healer" only support this self healing and boost it by a fair amount. This type of healer of course is a tank/damage dealer/controller to at least 50%.
Two games I have played which use this concept is AoC and STO. I like the basic game mechanics in both games quite much.