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With the changes coming to GF, how many will stay conquerer or go protector
gorgothus
Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users Posts: 46
All of this is pure speculation ofcourse, but just curious if more people will try "true" tanking builds over the current dps "fighter" builds.
The fix to block is a godsend regardless, but I'm still wondering, since from what I've read the model seems to be the DPS (conq) build for end game since it's more of a DPS race vs Tank and control.
The Increased threat plus DC's heal threat will be split even amongst the mobs means easier control, can we handle that much with 10% more gaurd? If you do the turtle tank build perhaps, yet that brings me circle back to the first question, dps vs control tanking.
anyway...what's your thoughts?
The fix to block is a godsend regardless, but I'm still wondering, since from what I've read the model seems to be the DPS (conq) build for end game since it's more of a DPS race vs Tank and control.
The Increased threat plus DC's heal threat will be split even amongst the mobs means easier control, can we handle that much with 10% more gaurd? If you do the turtle tank build perhaps, yet that brings me circle back to the first question, dps vs control tanking.
anyway...what's your thoughts?
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Post edited by gorgothus on
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Envy's Guardian Fighter DPS Conqueror Guide
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Why does everyone assume you have to guard every single attack? The only things I worry about blocking are the bigger hits, the AOE circles, the stuff that does nasty damage.
The guard meter isn't intended for you to taunt all the mobs, and then hold shift while your group kills everything. You have to pick and choose your timing. That's the difference between good and great players.
Sorry if I gave that impression when I said "Turtle tanking" my bad. What I really meant by that was , with a "Turtle Tank build" you can have more flexibilty to gaurd more, with the faster recharging guard plus the 10% extra guard given to us.
Personally like most, I try to run out of the AoE circles or conals since it's telegraphed, keeping guard meter up at 100% most of the time. There are times though though "stuff" happens and your left with 0 to little gaurd after a single or two hits and yet another big swing comming your way without time to get out.
With the changes though, if you wanted to per se , go in that build style, you could in essence , guard more then usual at a cost of your dps...so just wondering if that will bring more of the true sense of tanking.
@Envy- Makes complete sense, Id probably guess most wont after all, if you can currently do it in the current Conquerer build (well minus with the block bug) why switch over.
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Conqueror will stay viable too.
Even a full defense tree might work, but that will seriously be overkill and a bit of a waste.
Each will run the dungeon differently.
Now GWF will be the new highest AOE dps.
CW won't be able to do enough aoe dmg and will have to fallback on their control ability.
GF won't be dealing enough AOE dmg compared to GWF making GF less wanted over 2 GWF, but not as bad that you would mind having either GF+GWF or 2xGWF
Welcome to the new meta
1x DC
4x GWF
And I'm not even kidding.
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.. what're you smoking? Like not to be offensive, but the GWF aren't really in that much better of a place than they were before the patch, cooldowns are nice, but we don't have many AOE encounters, we get it mostly from our at-wills. which got a measly 20% buff. They're great aoe dps, but conquerors were beating them by miles before and.. weren't nerfed, at all. Cleave hits like wicked strike, but doesn't lose ~15% damage per mob hit, and gets 40? 45?% bonus damage from feats, and that's before you take into account how powerful stalwart bulwark and reckless fighter are.
That said, the meta HAS diversified, simply because the majority (~70%!) of a rogues dps is the duelist flurry bleed, and they've made it not stack past 10 (instead of 10 stacks per rogue), meaning multiple rogues will take a noticable hit in output.
Likewise There isn't much point to stacking DC's besides astral shield, there aren't many powers you benefit from having TONS OF besides AS, and it no longer stacks.
Wizards are still golden for singularity, and their ability to drop mitigation (RoE wasn erfed, but the thaumaturge capstone wasn't, AS wasn't. They can gather mobs, nuke boss mitigation, leave the killing to everyone else).
Couple this with the fact that threat is fixed, and clerics suffer righteousness from AS now (-40% healing), thus ending the era of cleric tanks, so you'll need a guardian (though conqueror works) or GWF (.. sentinel is actually pretty delicious, feat-wise. and you can get pretty absurd DR fairly easily.) to tank.
So while the changes didn't exactly make every class SUPER OP, they removed a lot of the oomph from stacking certain classes (TR, DC), and gave the other classes viability
If you're going with a full tank build I don't see why you wouldn't try and guard as many blows as your guard meter allows. Nets you a good amount of action points and you want to be using aggravating strike to generate maximum threat anyway.
I'd be really surprised, but stranger things have happened.
A more likey scenario to me seems
1x DC
1x TR
3x CW
What's this? A SANE person responding to the patch notes?!?!
I like your take on the patch notes Kyuubiil. They've also stopped Ray of Enfeeblement from stacking from multiple Wizards which supports what you're saying.
I dislike hysteria and doom-saying, I would have liked more of an upgrade for my GWF, or hell, more of a actual paradigm shift in balancing.
But honestly, they made sentinel viable, which was what I was hoping to respec to anyhow, so.. I'll take it.
Also likely not possible, the CW-PUSHCLIFF mindset was set for speed runs, use geometry glitches to skip content, bug bosses, melee that isn't a rogue is a liability. One of the biggest sections of the patch notes was the dungeon/zone fixes. Many shortcuts are done. Many exploits fixed. Speedruns aren't a thing anymore, and as such, the general playerbases mindset will likely have to adjust to "What's the most likely comp to get me through this run successfully and maybe net me a second run during this DD" and less "WE CAN JUST SKIP THE HARD BITS AND HAVE THE CW PERMAMEZ EVERYTHING, WHY WOULD WE WANT SOMEONE TO TANK WHEN WE CAN JUST SKIP TH BOSS AND BURN HIM AND DO 6 RUNS THIS DD.", which psychologically speaking, will actually have an impact on class elitism in group comp.
also remember, Righteousness (-40% on self heals) now applies to AS, clerics aren't tanks anymore
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Block, even when working properly wasn't working as a permanent dmg block anyway.
You gotta use it as a "dodge" button, to block the hard hitting stuff or bad CC's not the minor dmg.
Getting more aggro on us and thus more of the small hits, might be a reason to respec into a more tanky/tactician guardian.
As the AP gain from tactician would be pretty high when everything is actually hitting you.
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