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itheryel
Member Posts: 335 Bounty Hunter
For what i can tell, it doesnt state anywhere u are forced to spend real money when u download the game? ore am i missing something?...
So if u arent forced to do it, u are giving it freely to SUPORT the current development of the game, and wish to see it be completed (the items are like little "thank u for suporting us" baskets).
Obviuesly u can look up online what open-beta means, and i can tell u upfront, it wont state anything about a cash-shop being present ore not. It is merely a development state that needs a wide spread of people to test the basic groundwork of the game on, and gather all the feedback of them.
I guess what im trying to point out here is :
If u dont suport the vision presented by cryptic, if u dont like in what direction they are taking this game, if u join a beta expecting there wont be any bugs, if u join expecting it to be polished and clean ready for instal without any issue's.
Use some common sense and hold on to ure money?
I seriuesly fail to understand why u would hand over money to a game u do not suport, just to come complain about it's current state afterwards. Makes absolutely no sense to me.
Obviuesly a lot of people are waiting for official launch before spending any real money on this game, and i can do nothing but promote that attitude, since it is a logical thing to do if u feel unsure about the current state of the game ore the direction.
However if u like what u see, u got some $$$ to spare and u wish to SUPORT the current state of the game, please do. But dont do it expecting anything in return from it. That wil just leave u behind feelling like u are entitled to something, wich u are not. (i would say u would be entitled to 1 suport basket on the zen store, nothing more?)
So basicly what im trying to say is, spend ure money wisely. Also a thing to consider, if u played this game solo questing only, with 5 chars, im guessing it would take u at least 2 weeks to complete if u wanna enjoy it(and i consider that rushing it) so even if u payed SOME money for it, how could u be upset about it? The game has already given u joy for a fair amount of hours, not including all the other things available to u after solo content. Even if u payed the "gaurdian" pack, this would easily be justified by playing solo content alone, since any generic tittle wil charge u about 50$ for something around 9 hours of gameplay on average.(<-- random number i pulled out of my A** but just to ilustrate a point)
Enjoy the game and peace.
-itheryel-
So if u arent forced to do it, u are giving it freely to SUPORT the current development of the game, and wish to see it be completed (the items are like little "thank u for suporting us" baskets).
Obviuesly u can look up online what open-beta means, and i can tell u upfront, it wont state anything about a cash-shop being present ore not. It is merely a development state that needs a wide spread of people to test the basic groundwork of the game on, and gather all the feedback of them.
I guess what im trying to point out here is :
If u dont suport the vision presented by cryptic, if u dont like in what direction they are taking this game, if u join a beta expecting there wont be any bugs, if u join expecting it to be polished and clean ready for instal without any issue's.
Use some common sense and hold on to ure money?
I seriuesly fail to understand why u would hand over money to a game u do not suport, just to come complain about it's current state afterwards. Makes absolutely no sense to me.
Obviuesly a lot of people are waiting for official launch before spending any real money on this game, and i can do nothing but promote that attitude, since it is a logical thing to do if u feel unsure about the current state of the game ore the direction.
However if u like what u see, u got some $$$ to spare and u wish to SUPORT the current state of the game, please do. But dont do it expecting anything in return from it. That wil just leave u behind feelling like u are entitled to something, wich u are not. (i would say u would be entitled to 1 suport basket on the zen store, nothing more?)
So basicly what im trying to say is, spend ure money wisely. Also a thing to consider, if u played this game solo questing only, with 5 chars, im guessing it would take u at least 2 weeks to complete if u wanna enjoy it(and i consider that rushing it) so even if u payed SOME money for it, how could u be upset about it? The game has already given u joy for a fair amount of hours, not including all the other things available to u after solo content. Even if u payed the "gaurdian" pack, this would easily be justified by playing solo content alone, since any generic tittle wil charge u about 50$ for something around 9 hours of gameplay on average.(<-- random number i pulled out of my A** but just to ilustrate a point)
Enjoy the game and peace.
-itheryel-
Petram Sacram - I am no devine cleric, i am a Gaurdian fighter in disguise with better threat and supportive spells -
Post edited by itheryel on
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On to your point. While I am enjoying the game as a FTP player and thus am able to enjoy it for what it is as it is, I really understand where some of the complainers are coming from. And when made constructively, complaints are part of supporting a game in whatever its current state is and to deny that is akin to sticking your fingers in your ears and la-la-la-ing.
Is it useful for Cryptic/PWE to know that there are potential customers, like me, who would be happy to contribute to the game financially if a) the price of Zen wasn't so ridiculous, and b) we had more confidence in the security team's ability to shut down exploits timeously? I think it is.
Is it useful to know that those players who have invested financially are wholly dissatisfied with the customer support they are currently (not) receiving? Of course.
Customer satisfaction is everything to service providers and knowing where they fall short is crucial if they are to improve relations with their customer base and be successful.
You carry on sticking your fingers in your ears if you want. That's about as useful as trying to eat custard with a fork, but each to their own.
And i am not "putting my fingers in my ears going tralalalalaa" i am merely stating nobody is forced to spend money on this title, and the solo play content alone justifies a payment.
To take your example, if people had waited to spend money, submitted a ticket about some random bug, and found costumer suport lacking. They might have not given there money to this game, and in return wouldent feel disapointed about doing so. And this is mostly my point.
If u are not "suporting" the game with ure money, but u want something in return for the money spend, dont bother with it?..
But thx for the possitive comment (aldo some of it was negative towards me personaly, without knowing me
And if nothing else i would support coments like this to any thread (minus the personal attacks)
Also i would like to point out, do u seriuesly believe cryptic is putting there fingers in there ears going tralalala like u pointed out?
Do u believe they arent reading these forums , just staying silent as to not start a riot? Nothing they can say would fall in good ears, it would all be shut down the day it was posted. I can understand why they stay silent on some big issue's just to keep the peace.
Secondly. Yes! I do think Cryptic personnel read the forums, which is why I bothered to give my own feedback on what they could improve to make ME invest financially. It is in everyone's best interest that trust and confidence is at a level whereby people feel 'safe' paying money for this product.
I don't see anything constructive in telling people "you took a risk, you lost, suck it up" (AKA "It's beta") or even, as you seem to be saying, "Don't spend money yet, wait and see". From the point of view of a player with a finite amount of money to spend on my gaming hobby, of course I see the logic in what you are saying, but I see no productivity in it for us or for Cryptic.
It's far better to discuss where improvements can be made in order for people like me to spend money and also what Cryptic have to do in order to increase the satisfaction of those customers who are already contributing financially.
Unfortunately, when it comes to gaming, managing expectations is something of a minefield (and gamers have to take ownership of managing their own expectations better). Admittedly, a lot of the forum noise is loud and unrealistic and presumably it was that sort of feedback you were trying to moderate by making this thread. However, I still think it is far better to ask "What can be done better in order to make you confident in investing in the game/happy with your purchase?" as opposed to your statement of "No one is forcing you to spend". That's just as unconstructive as the posts you were addressing.
Remind me who's worse, those complaining about the game, or those repeatedly defending the game with dead end arguments and overtly simplified logic.
What i was merely pointing at is that if u do invest money in this game at its current state, u should not feel entitled to direct improvements at ure desires.
The games direction and course is set out by the dev's, and we shouldent argue about that direction, rather we should see if we can align ourself with there direction and if it is apropriate to our needs we look for in a game.
If u can align ureself with there view, most likely u could already spent money on this game without feeling stabbed in the back by the exploit's/bugs that are currently present in its content.
I somehow feel a lot of people spend money on this game feeling entitled to an overnight change to meet there desires the day after they spend the money, leaving them utterly disapointed. And this is mostly caused by a human error, not a development error.
And this is what i wanted to adress in this thread.
If people invest in this game(and i hope many do obviuesly the groundwork of it is amazing and it's potential is equaly exciting ALDO not yet achieved *duh*
It is like they payed for some wood to create a boat expecting the boat to be delivered the very next day, when obviuesly it needs assembly, fine tuning, etc....
And btw, i have nothing against feedback, be it positive ore negative. Both are required for the succes of this game, and this thread is not to point a finger at the negative feedback in any way. However there are different ways to express ones negative feedback, and i feel a lot of people lack the the common sense to express negative feedback in a positive manner.
Obviuesly u understand my view, and i understand your's, both are valid and an adition to the forums, as they aspire to be constructive. But a lot of people dont even bother to be constructive and that is something troublesome.
Also to the people reading this thread, i would like to point out i am no fan-boy by any means, i realise this game has a lot of flaws and could use MASSIVE improvements, and i have voiced my opinions acordingly. And obviuesly i feel for the people stuck with the horible customer suport
I know, right?
No one was ever forced to pay. They chose to pay, which means they accepted what they were given. I don't care if you spent $200 , enjoyed the game and reached level 60 and hate the game. That's your own fault. I didn't spend $200 and I got to 60 without it. So why didn't you do the same?
I didn't start spending money until I knew I liked this game for what it was, and I wanted to support Cryptic for what they have done, even there are bugs and imbalances in a few places.
It's not like all the frustrated Guild Wars 2 players who ragequit and posted about it! NCsoft forced us to pay $60 for the game! There was no free trial! It was either don't play the game or spend $60 to try it out! After I purchased GW2, if I hated the game, it was too late! I used the Licence Serial#, which means I can't return it for a refund, I can't resell it either, not unless I want some guy off Craigslist to also take possession of my email address. I guess it's my fault for not creating a seperate email address just for GW2??? Yeah right.
See? No one who spent money in NW has the right to complain they got ripped off. No one has the right to say they spent money and demand a refund or are angry that they wasted money in this game!
Above is an example of really great constructive criticism, this we need more of.
Below are the type of comments we need less of.
No, it's really not.
Pay 2 Win is if money buys things that CANNOT be gotten any other way, and that are substantively better than anything that can. You can get anything in this game through ingame play except some titles, fashion hats, and mounts and companions that look different than other mounts and companions but perform the same.
Being able to do so with minimal effort wouldn't be Free 2 Play, it'd be Free. This isn't a Free game; it's a Free 2 Play game.
They're not at all being upfront about exploits, if you think that you haven't realized exactly how many there are, especially when many were reported in closed beta.
I do agree with the rest of your points Karitr, before a couple days ago I only joined in discussions about how the game should proceed and really hated all the inflammatory posts everywhere. Then they stole from me, and I changed my opinion.
I haven't seen any real genuine statements from them, all of the exploit problems their response is let it run for a while so as most people don't realize there was a problem in the first place if they're not told they don't know, only when something is gamebreaking do they make a comment and give us a cape as compensation.
And the whole CS thing is ridiculous, making a post asking people to be patient while they 'find the right people' for the job, they're hiring simple highschool grads to answer e-mails not programmers, everything has been veiled so far and nothing honest has come from them as far as I can tell.
U are using the words "suport" and "consume" in a wrongfull manner.
When u support a game, u dont want anything in return for it, u just offer ure "suport" in any way u can be it money ore feedback.
(the zen u get is like a *thx for the suport* basket, and might as well not be given to people, seeing as it gives people the feeling they are entitled to anything)
When u pay for consumption, that is the time when u can demand things, because you actively purchased a product that states it does A and B, and if it doesnt do A ore B u are in ure right's to complain.
I hope u see the difference between supporting the game as it is now, and being a consumer once it is released.
My point is that people act like they are consumers atm when exualy they are suporters. So they cant really make claims that they are "owed" anything.
However like previuesly mentioned, i am not saying "dont give negative feedback" etc, i am merely pointing out the flaw in the mindset of people giving money atm and expecting the wrong things in return.
Negative feedback is always desired in a beta of any kind, but the manner in wich it is presented is equaly important.
( i just finished reading the rest of ure post, and i am sorry that somebody stole items ore whatever from u, seriuesly i am. And i urge u to post about it in a constructive manner to let the community/dev's know about it, i should point out that u are not being very constructive in this answer (the bottom part) and u should adress this if u wish to make a thread about it that is taken seriuesly, however hard this may be considering u got ripped of (i imagine i would be damned upset also, but this wouldent help my cause of preventing it to others and myself in the future))
It is always interesting to me when someone clings to some technical notion as if it’s pure and codified line might hide the actuality of what is happening. Like watching the waters rise and shouting that it is technically just a tropical depression so everything is alright. By this definition’s logic I can fly because with just a leap I am fully, and without other assist, moving through the air.
But of course that is entirely silly. I can’t fly and all it takes to understand that is an observation of the state of events. In observing the state of cash’s effect on Neverwinter does it seem like months of grinding are in any way comparable to dropping money and getting something instantly?
This brings me to me next point. What is the attention span of gamers who are not achieving anything in the game? Lets be at least semi realistic. Does the system not seem weighted toward the paying customer far, far more that the free to play customer.
Normally I would say this is just business but the marketing is that it is a free to play game, the hype is that anything is attainable in eth game, the reality by any reasonable measure is that is not so.
Trying to paint in some very technical condition won’t make it any more so.
And to turn this more to the OP:
The notion that we should support the game out of some sense of obligation is amazing. And if you don’t spend your money on the game you have no say in its direction? Cryptic said the game is free to play. If they only wanted paying customers they would have charged to get in.
Yet somehow a surprising number of people believe that they need to give Cryptic money, for free. Now if you want to support the game, if you want to donate, then you are a good person and should do that. But to say that other players have no say in the direction of the game because they do not pay anything is a fallacy at best and at worst a variant of Stockholm syndrome.
Expect value for your money. I feel like Cryptic is capitalizing on a demographic that has an underdeveloped sense of value and turning that into pressure for the rest of us.
Do not accept that a promise is the same as a product.
I would like to see a qoute with a statement like that, where did i mention not needing negative feedback from non-paying players?
If u however had taken the time to read my thread fully, u would have realised i promote this exualy and i am not talking about if u should/should not spend money on the game.
I am however pointing out that if u DO pay money for this game in its current state, u should realise in what state it is and not be disapointed after contributing to it. If u do it to gain more power in ure arguments, dont contribute at all please. If u do it to suport the developers for there effort then yes do suport.
Quote Originally Posted by roents
It's an "open beta" that can't be wiped even in the midst of multiple economy destroying exploits. FUN
Since when did becoming realistic turn into being a fanboy?...
(ore u might have not understood my post, so no problem, i forgive ya
Mearly a phonetically expresion i use when typing rapidly, im sure U will understand, since clearly U are so enlightened as to ignore minor inconviences like this made by a non english forum user.
Your welcome.
After 30 years of gaming never felt forced to pay anything extra,
it's sort of tipping for great service. I do when its appropriate and earned.
Sadly many growing up now is so used to have anything for free.
For MMO's I always believed there has to be choices, either pay
(because your successful to begin with) or work for it.
Remember working hard for hours on end and sleepless nights,
farming for all mounts and extras, very satisfying when I was done,
I could had taken the short route, but the journey and self-pride made me push trough.
Now many have issues with is, as in real life we absolutely hate cheapskates,
we are famous for comparing our-self with others. And for some it sips trough in the game.
Just the thought that some one can walk in and get everything makes them tick.
In-mature, cultural or upbringing, what it may be, in the end we do whats right for our self.
I support this game and want to buy extra neat stuff they spent time in making,
support forth coming adventures and products.
I absolutely do not need to, to be greater in the game,
it takes effort and work while upholding the community standards we make,
for and with our fellow guild members.
And when I do buy online electronic items, I buy as is and respect current TOS.