Dialog Editor

mwbay · June 2013

I'm stumped about how to use the Enable When and Disable When options in the Advanced Dialog Editor. I understand Never and Immediately, but how to you use Objective Complete and Objective in Progress? How do you select the Objective? Help! And thanks!

hflord1 · June 2013

objective complete would be when a story line section is complete. So you would have "kill mobs X" as a quest line, and in the editor object complete "kill mobs X". When those mobs are dead that option is available.

objective in progress is the same but will be available once that obj. begins.

mwbay · June 2013

Yeah, that much I figured.

What I don't understand is why when I try to add Objective Complete or Objective in Progress, I get an Add Objective that does do anything and a State transition has to objective selected error.

mwbay · June 2013

** Anyone? **

At this point, all I want to do is hide certain dialog options after the player has "heard" them.

rustyblades · June 2013

You can just swap out the NPC - once an objective is complete, swap NPC #8 (disappear) with NPC #9 who happens to look the same as NPC #8 but has a different dialog tree.

mwbay · June 2013

Yes, I've tried that, but the transition is obvious and I'd rather not do it that way. It looks like we should be able to "retire" certain dialog tracks after an objective is completed or in progress, but nothing happens when you click the Add Objective button. It's either a bug or not very intuitive.

morbic · June 2013

Might have to set it up as multiple dialogue objectives for the same NPC right now. That way you can have text x show up during the first discussion and text y show up for the second discussion.

mwbay · June 2013

That's exactly what I intended to do, but I'm not able to disable the first dialog and enable the second. And I know it can be done, because Cryptic does it in game, apparently without swapping out one character for another.

data314159 · June 2013

I am pretty sure cryptic does not use the foundry to create it's content.

ovaltine74 · June 2013

mwbay wrote: »

Yes, I've tried that, but the transition is obvious and I'd rather not do it that way. It looks like we should be able to "retire" certain dialog tracks after an objective is completed or in progress, but nothing happens when you click the Add Objective button. It's either a bug or not very intuitive.

You need a distraction to hide the obvious. This is all smoke and mirrors. If you are not trying to figure out ways to fake stuff, you are doing it wrong. One of the easiest ways to pull off swapping out things without players seeing you do it is to design it so the player is facing away from what is being swapped out. There are also many effects such as blackout and smoke that can obscure or distract the players eye while you swap stuff out. Half the challenge of creating a good quest is figuring out these things. Below is a quote that should be your credo when developing a quest for players.

"There is nothing wrong with your television. Do not attempt to adjust the picture. We are now in control of the transmission. We control the horizontal and the vertical. We can deluge you with a thousands channels, or expand one single image to crystal clarity and beyond. We can shape your vision to anything our imagination can conceive. For the next hour, we will control all that you see and hear." ~The Outer Limits

mwbay · June 2013

I appreciate the responses. But the question remains: How do Enable When and Disable When options in the Advanced Dialog Editor actually work?

angrysprite · June 2013

I'd be happy to answer your question and give you a proven definitive solution, but you are not describing what you want to do in enough detail.

Please re-describe *exactly* what you are trying to do (describe it as a player would see it). If I understand what it is you are trying to accomplish, I'll be happy to chip-in and explain how I'd do it. I've been doing Foundry for three years, chances are I've already done what you are trying to do at some point or another.

mwbay · June 2013

Thanks angrysprite...

At this point, I just want to know what the disable when and enable when options in the Advanced dialog editor do. I'd like to have the ability to disable and enable specific dialog options depending on the player's advancement through the storyline.

The story I'm working on has the character go to a tavern that is a gathering place for thieves. I have a room filled with NPCs who offer information that may be useful to the quest, and three NPCs that guide the PC toward the next stage in the quest.

The PC enters a Tavern to begin the quest.
NPC Felix greets the character, and sends him to the next NPC, Reggie.
Reggie offers the PC a chance to join his band of thieves if the PC steals a valuable artifact from a wizard. He sends the PC to talk to Reba about how to sneak into the wizard's tower through the sewers.
Reba gives the PC a map to the tower and tells him to go out the backdoor of the tavern.

What I'd really like to have happen is for all three key NPCs to have *new* dialog options *after* they've completed their objective conversations. If the PC goes back to the NPCs in question, I don't want them to repeat the previous dialog. I want Felix to offer advice about the wizard's tower, Reggie chastise the PC for being cowardly and not getting on with it, and Reba to offer an alternative route to the tower.

I know I can use a duplicate NPC, but I really dislike watching the transition of one fading out and the other one fading in. And I know I could completely restructure and rearrange things to accomplish the objective of getting the PC into the sewers. Indeed, I'll probably have to do just that and I can accept that.

What I want is an explanation of the disable when and enable when options in the Advanced dialog editor. When I try to use them, I get an error as mentioned above. I have found zero documentation or information about their use. Do they work at all? Are they bugged? Or am I missing something in their use?

angrysprite · June 2013

Okay, I think I get it.

The answer IS to switch to new (identical) NPCs - but here's how I would do it: use stage production techniques: "steer the audience eye away from prop swaps or set change"...

Let's call them NPC 1, 2 and 3: 1 = Greetings, 2=Here's the quest and 3=Here's the map and info.

Don't place them too close to each other. Since it's a tavern den of ill-repute, everyone is kind of clandestine, right? So they each would be off in their own corner or area... positioned so that when the player is facing any one of them, he cannot see the other two. Get it?

Now, here is how I would set it up - and note: this does NOT have to happen in your storyboard, that is not a requirement.

For each NPC - there will be three copies of each (you can do it with fewer, but I will use three each to help you understand what I am doing) - I will call each a, b and c. So NPC 1 will have three copies (1a, 1b and 1c).

Here is how the mechanics will work:

SETUP:
Appear immediately are
NPC 1a (greeter with greet dialog)
NPC 1b (greeter with "hello again!' dialog)

NPC 2a (Quest giver with or without dialog, e.g. "Go away and leave me alone you scum!" dialog)
NPC 2b (Quest giver with the actual quest giving dialog)
NPC 2c (Quest giver with "Whaddaya waitin' for you lazy scum!" or whatever)

NPC 3a (Map giver with or without initial dialog e.g. "Go away, leave me alone!")
NPC 3b (Map giver gives the map, etc.)
NPC 3c (Map giver with "what else you want?" or whatever)

At this point, PC can visit any of the three - only NPC1 will give anything meaningful - and trigger NPC2:
NPC2a disappear=dialog prompt (choose a dialog prompt from NPC1 - greeter) / NPC2b appear- dialog prompt (same dialog prompt that NPC2a disappears).

When pc goes to NPC 2b and get gets the quest dialog, the following happens:
NPC1a disappears=dialog prompt (from NPC2b) / NPC1b appears=dialog prompt (same dialog prompt 1a disappears with)
AND ALSO: NPC3a disappears=dialog prompt (NPC2b dialog that tells to go get map) / NPC3b appears=dialog prompt (same NPC2b dialog that NPC3a disappears with)

PC goes to NPC 3 to get the map. by this time the greeter will "regreet" with new dialog, quest giver will say nothing, but map giver is ready to give the map:
Set NPC 2b disappear=dialog prompt (when NPC 3 gives the map) / NPC 2c appear=dialog prompt (same dialog that makes 2b disappear). Drop the map to the PC.

Note that creating NPC 2c (and 3c for that matter) are entirely optional. Also note that because the NPC swaps are happening when the PC is focussed on a third NPC, he will not notice the swap out. What's even more fun and interesting is this: put the "b" versions in different positions or even a slightly different area when they swap. This gives the impression that they are alive and moving around.

Okay, I hope I understood what you are trying to achieve and I hope my description makes sense to you.

So here is what it will look like to the player:

Sees all three NPCs - all three have "!" over their heads. PC can interact with any of them in any order. If PC interacts with #1 or #2 the (!) will disappear - he must now go to greeter. Once PC gets greeted by #1, #2 is ready to give the quest and the (!) reappears, now #1 and #3 have no (!). #2 was swapped while PC was talking to #1 - so he doesn't see the swap.

Rinse and repeat when PC goes to NPC #3.

mwbay · June 2013

angrysprite,

Thanks for the response. That solution is more elegant than the one I resorted to, but basically the same idea.

Do you know what the enable when and disable when options are supposed to accomplish?

angrysprite · June 2013

Enable and disable in what setting?

There are a few variables: appear when and disappear when: whether or not and when to show an object or NPC - this is the first option most new Foundry authors learn about.

Required: this is an object that must be in inventory before this option is selectable by the player; an item you have created that is dropped to the player at some point, such as a "key".

Appear when (class) - this object is only visible to the class you designate - similar to the appear/disappear when, except it is always either "immediately" or "never" depending on the class you select. The option to toggle the visibility (which I believe is broken right now) flip-flops the visibility based on the class. For example: a doorway set to "Wizard" will only appear if a wizard is in the party. if visibility is turned toggled, then it will never show if the solo player is a Wizard (but will show if there are others, but Wizard cannot interact with it).

As for enable and disable... tell me where you see this option (I am at my office and so I am explaining everything from memory.)

mwbay · June 2013

I do understand the options you've listed....

I'm speaking of the options that appear in the Advanced Dialog Editor...

Your choices for each are:
Component Complete *
Component Reached *
This Component Complete *
Dialog Prompt Reached *
Never
Immediately
Objective Complete
Objective in Progress

* only appear when the dialog is NOT a Story Objective dialog. All of these options work for non-Story Objective Dialog, as seen here:

If the dialog is a Story Objective, then selecting Objective Complete or Objective in Progress adds a button Add Objective. But, clicking it doesn't bring up a list of possible objective, it only results in a "State transition has no objective selected" error.

angrysprite · June 2013

OH yes! LOL

THAT is the "proper" way to create the multiple dialogs you are asking about in your OP 9and I answered in detail about using multiple copies of your NPC) - But - I think this option is still broken (it was during beta).

Okay - it works EXACTLY LIKE "Appear when" and "disappear when" on objects and NPCs, except if applies to specific player response options while in a dialog tree.

So you could have an NPC say "Did you find the key you were looking for?" and have three responses:

"I don't know what you;re talking about!"
"No, I couldn't find it!"
"YES, I FOUND IT!"

Now, you can set this specific response to only work if the player HAS the key. However - you can also HIDE (disable) this response unless the player meets the requirements you set (for example: objective in progress) - in which case, if the player does have the key, and speaks to this NPC too soon (they aren;t supposed to actually go through the door yet) - then this response will not even appear - so it can;t be selected.

I know: sloppy example, but I hope you get the idea.

igt was broken in beta, but I haven;t tried it lately, you might want to give it a go.

Dialog Editor

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