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Forums > Home› Neverwinter Discussion › The Foundry

A question about decision making

josephleaustinjosephleaustin Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 5 Arc User
edited June 2013 in The Foundry
I'm working on my first foundry quest. The design has had to radically change over and over as things I took as granted turned out to be impossible at this stage of the foundry. That's what I get from having a programming background (read: god mode).

One thing I'm not seeing is a way to carry branching character choices from one map to another. I did a search for this subject but didn't see it addressed before on this forum, though I could be wrong. Here are things as I understand them:
  • You can't set any flags that carry over between maps
  • You can't let the user go back to a previous map or choose two exits, the game must be totally linear
  • You cannot force a player to hold on to a quest item
  • You can't check what dialog options were made in a previous map


All considered, it looks as though I might have to just forget this, unless someone else has found a way. I could theoretically just beg the user not to drop one of two quest items and key off of which he has somehow, but I feel like that's pushing it.
Post edited by josephleaustin on

Comments

  • zovyazovya Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild Users Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    The items you listed are in fact correct. But keep this in mind: A magician can't levitate a woman, but yet somehow, he does.
  • josephleaustinjosephleaustin Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 5 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    Indeed. It can certainly be set up on a single map, such as your lovely difficulty slider, and it might be possible to do a misdirect. The user is not likely to destroy the optional inventory items they carry, so I could simply fuss at them if they do so and ask them to make the decision again. That would only affect a few players, I'd hope. Can't think of any other hacks but I'll keep looking.
  • meedacthunistmeedacthunist Member Posts: 3,085
    edited June 2013
    My latest test have branched decisions tracked within one map and before transition to the next map there is a "biling" interaction and token item is given to player to mark his progression on the next map. This token depends from his decisions. This isn't perfect solution but it's better than none.
    As for pushing it, frankly - it isn't a quest builder's problem. If player doesn't want to sacrifice one, maximum two slots to follow story on the next map... The he/she shouldn't be complaining about lack of choices.
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  • josephleaustinjosephleaustin Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 5 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    That is precisely what I was thinking. I could even give them an ooc note that says 'we're depending on you keeping that item there, so dont be a dork and go deleting it'. In a kinder tone.
  • zovyazovya Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild Users Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    Describe the item to show that it's very important, like "key to open the final boss room". They would be less likely to delete something like that. Remember, smoke and mirrors.
  • josephleaustinjosephleaustin Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 5 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    Thanks everyone =)
  • tarrockatarrocka Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 5 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    I agree that it certainly makes non-linear adventures more difficult to create.

    Perhaps (as a short term solution until PW implements these handy features), you could create a 'default' path for those whom insist on dropping the required quest item while still having the alternative paths for those who keep them safe. Naturally this might require some creative dialogue/storyline changes to maintain continuity.

    As for maintaining a record of dialogue responses, a 'single' quest item could be used to store that information -- whom is to know if their 'neverwinter crown' secretly numbered 126 is any different than 'neverwinter crown' version 473. To the player, it would appear to be a single quest item while your dialogues/NPCs/etc. could tell the difference.

    Just my thoughts; though I have only dabbled in the Foundry and haven't done any serious consideration on what (or how) to create my adventures.
  • thehuntress#2050 thehuntress
    thehuntress#2050
         Member Posts: 119 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    Currently the only way to make non linear maps is to use portals. In the one quest I'm doing I'm giving two way to get there.
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  • angryspriteangrysprite Member Posts: 4,982 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    josephleaustin wrote: »
    All considered, it looks as though I might have to just forget this, unless someone else has found a way. I could theoretically just beg the user not to drop one of two quest items and key off of which he has somehow, but I feel like that's pushing it.

    This is true. But as with anyone in the "entertainment industry" you need to think outside the box, use smoke and mirrors to accomplish what you need to accomplish. Here's your list:

    You can't set any flags that carry over between maps
    True, but yet I've done this. it's a matter of how you go about doing it. Think of it as a creativity problem. The challenge for you is to solve it. I use objects dropped for this.

    You can't let the user go back to a previous map or choose two exits, the game must be totally linear
    This is correct, yet I've done the multiple exit thing, and returning to previous locations, etc. Use the smoke and mirrors at your disposal. I use portals and multiple "types" of maps on a single canvass - appears to be different locations on a single (large) map, just remember "less is more" when it comes to set dressing and your asset budgeting.

    You cannot force a player to hold on to a quest item
    Very true, but why would you want to? A player knows if they are dropped anything that discarding it could "break" the ability to complete the quest. UNLESS, you build "error-checking" into your quests, which will ensure your quest always works the way you intended and makes it practically impossible for a player to screw to up for himself. This can be a complicated logic-based solution, but very doable. It comes down to serious attention to detail.

    You can't check what dialog options were made in a previous map
    This is the most true among all your complaints. However, I've found a way - and I've done it using dropped items.

    In short: I've found ways to circumvent all the limitations you describe. Every one of them. I'm not going to write a novel on how to do it, and there are many ways to do thngs. But I'll give you this one: depending on which dialog the player chooses, I might give him a golden key, rusty key, silver key, brass key, wooden key.... when all they know they need is a "key". Based on which key they have at the new map - I will know which dialog option they've picked.

    There is no if, then, else/and/or/xor statements, etc here.

    Creating a really good quest requires strong creativity in story-telling. Use part of that creativity to overcome the hurdles you are faced with in the stage-planning and dressing of your play. :)

    Just remember: it's all smoke and mirrors.
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