It is also NOT one of the easiest bosses in the game. Himself, he is easy. The hundreds of adds, not so much. Success in that dungeon is really related to the quality and skill of the cleric and everyone's ability to dodge the heck out of the way. I will say that with 4 rogues you probably kill him fast though:D.
I've 4 manned it too. I've also wiped with 2 clerics in party. It all depends on the team.
I know a lot of you are hung up on the idea of the trinity or whatever but... Isn't it a victory for a game if it doesn't pigeonhole the gamer into playing a set role a certain way and instead lets you free form a bit? You know, gives you a bit of freedom of choice in party makeup?
I doubt anyone was trying to main tank or off tank in that fight, more just extremely dynamic add control paired with a lot of dodging. I don't see that as horribly bad or some sign that the game is broken in itself. Some classes being utterly useless in a dungeon - which is not the case however much you people like to blow things out of proportion, even if some classes are less useful - would be a big problem. Unorthodox party organization being able to work though - a problem? I'd hope not.
This is of course assuming no exploit/bugs. If you guys cheated your way through this, well...
I know a lot of you are hung up on the idea of the trinity or whatever but... Isn't it a victory for a game if it doesn't pigeonhole the gamer into playing a set role a certain way and instead lets you free form a bit? You know, gives you a bit of freedom of choice in party makeup?
Tell that to a player who wasted time levelling a GF.
I know a lot of you are hung up on the idea of the trinity or whatever but... Isn't it a victory for a game if it doesn't pigeonhole the gamer into playing a set role a certain way and instead lets you free form a bit? You know, gives you a bit of freedom of choice in party makeup?
I doubt anyone was trying to main tank or off tank in that fight, more just extremely dynamic add control paired with a lot of dodging. I don't see that as horribly bad or some sign that the game is broken in itself. Some classes being utterly useless in a dungeon - which is not the case however much you people like to blow things out of proportion, even if some classes are less useful - would be a big problem. Unorthodox party organization being able to work though - a problem? I'd hope not.
This is of course assuming no exploit/bugs. If you guys cheated your way through this, well...
I'm not making any sort of point here. I just think rogues and clerics make an awesome team.
A rich rogue nowadays is fit company for any gentleman; and the world, my dear, hath not such a contempt for roguery as you imagine. - John HAMSTER
Tell that to a player who wasted time levelling a GF.
Raising my hand on that. My two mains are GF and cleric both just above or below the 10k gear score mark. Frankly, both classes are good for what they do and it's rare that I don't *significantly* top the damage taken chart in dungeons with my GF while still managing to be middling on the damage dealt section. I swear what most people don't seem to realize is that, if you do your job as a GF, you will make other classes look better on the charts because they will be able to do their jobs without interruption while you just look like the <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> who takes a ton of hits and doesn't deal much damage. Groups that aren't full of mongoloids usually give me a pat on the back when they see the numbers at the end of a dungeon with me and I've taken tons of damage and was only a middling damage dealer, while particularly stupid groups say "LOL GF's suck huh?" not realizing that I was a good part of the reason they could DPS to their heart's content and at least part of the reason their cleric wasn't constantly getting blasted.
Actually just got two more slots and started a GWF today... Why do I get the feeling that when I get him leveled up I'll find that I've "wasted" my time just as much as I did with my GF? :rolleyes:
I know a lot of you are hung up on the idea of the trinity or whatever but... Isn't it a victory for a game if it doesn't pigeonhole the gamer into playing a set role a certain way and instead lets you free form a bit? You know, gives you a bit of freedom of choice in party makeup?
Having viable flexibility is a good thing. Having dumbed down encounters where the only thing resembling challenge is bringing enough DPS to burn the boss quickly, while one person handles the trash, is not so good for a game.
Having viable flexibility is a good thing. Having dumbed down encounters where the only thing resembling challenge is bringing enough DPS to burn the boss quickly, while one person handles the trash, is not so good for a game.
But the thing is, that's not what's happening. There are plenty of group makeups that don't require just bringing as much DPS as possible - and trust me, with GF and cleric mains, I know this well - isn't the only solution. If it were, let's face it, no-one would find success with anything BUT rogues, and that is not the case and I'd actually be shocked if you suggested it was. Even control wizards don't tend to single target DPS like rogues do and they're looked at as extremely valuable group members... Why? Because there are viable strategies beyond "burn the boss down as fast as possible." Control counts. So does healing. AoE DPS counts VS single target DPS. The statement that the only thing that matters, the only thing that can be successful, is "bringing enough DPS to burn the boss quickly" is either a mistaken statement or wilful ignorance of the reality of how most parties succeed to support an argument.
Comments
I've 4 manned him.
yep so easy done it 4 man as well
I've 4 manned it too. I've also wiped with 2 clerics in party. It all depends on the team.
Dear me, the urge to reply with something crass like "including your mother" is terrible. Please don't tempt the interwebs like this
Um, did he use the infinite stealth setup? If not, that is pretty impressive.........
I doubt anyone was trying to main tank or off tank in that fight, more just extremely dynamic add control paired with a lot of dodging. I don't see that as horribly bad or some sign that the game is broken in itself. Some classes being utterly useless in a dungeon - which is not the case however much you people like to blow things out of proportion, even if some classes are less useful - would be a big problem. Unorthodox party organization being able to work though - a problem? I'd hope not.
This is of course assuming no exploit/bugs. If you guys cheated your way through this, well...
Tell that to a player who wasted time levelling a GF.
I'm not making any sort of point here. I just think rogues and clerics make an awesome team.
Raising my hand on that. My two mains are GF and cleric both just above or below the 10k gear score mark. Frankly, both classes are good for what they do and it's rare that I don't *significantly* top the damage taken chart in dungeons with my GF while still managing to be middling on the damage dealt section. I swear what most people don't seem to realize is that, if you do your job as a GF, you will make other classes look better on the charts because they will be able to do their jobs without interruption while you just look like the <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> who takes a ton of hits and doesn't deal much damage. Groups that aren't full of mongoloids usually give me a pat on the back when they see the numbers at the end of a dungeon with me and I've taken tons of damage and was only a middling damage dealer, while particularly stupid groups say "LOL GF's suck huh?" not realizing that I was a good part of the reason they could DPS to their heart's content and at least part of the reason their cleric wasn't constantly getting blasted.
Actually just got two more slots and started a GWF today... Why do I get the feeling that when I get him leveled up I'll find that I've "wasted" my time just as much as I did with my GF? :rolleyes:
Awesome. Consider it a pre-emptive point for exactly the type of person I was referencing in that post, then.
Having viable flexibility is a good thing. Having dumbed down encounters where the only thing resembling challenge is bringing enough DPS to burn the boss quickly, while one person handles the trash, is not so good for a game.
But the thing is, that's not what's happening. There are plenty of group makeups that don't require just bringing as much DPS as possible - and trust me, with GF and cleric mains, I know this well - isn't the only solution. If it were, let's face it, no-one would find success with anything BUT rogues, and that is not the case and I'd actually be shocked if you suggested it was. Even control wizards don't tend to single target DPS like rogues do and they're looked at as extremely valuable group members... Why? Because there are viable strategies beyond "burn the boss down as fast as possible." Control counts. So does healing. AoE DPS counts VS single target DPS. The statement that the only thing that matters, the only thing that can be successful, is "bringing enough DPS to burn the boss quickly" is either a mistaken statement or wilful ignorance of the reality of how most parties succeed to support an argument.