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User Interface, Character appearances, and Classes
dragontayl
Member Posts: 15 Arc User
Greetings!
I have seen a few other threads on the forums that cover parts of this topic, but they appear to be locked, so I would like to present my case.
Just quickly: I played NwN1 from the day it was released until about 10 months after it was no longer supported. Since that time I've been basically game-homeless, wandering from system to system in a melancholy daze, unhappy with most of what I've seen out there (though I have played a few other MMOs and been pleased with the experience, nothing that lasted almost 8 years). When I heard Neverwinter MMO was coming out I was so excited I researched everything and when I heard Cryptic had done Star Trek Online, I dove into it to see what they'd done. I am a trekie since age 5, but had not played any SciFi MMOs - Fantasy is more my genre. However, I was floored with how good STO was. I wanted mostly to check out the foundry because I love to create content, but the entire STO experience rocked me to my core. I couldn't believe how much fun I had playing SciFi (even, as stated, being a Trekie when the original series was the only thing available).
When Neverwinter MMO went to Open Beta I was again rocked to my core, but this time in a horrible, jarring, depth-of-despair way. The content and story are fine, the graphics are okay, but there were three issues that, combined, were deal-breakers. I just couldn't play. I tried every day for three weeks, sometimes getting no more than 30 seconds in before I had to exit.
Absolutely #1 and totally leaving me unable to continue is the user interface. Please understand my objection, there are many misunderstandings about the UI out there. I totally get the "simpler battle" thing, though honestly a lot of us LIKE the idea of being complex in our battle skills. I do like that there are fewer buttons to press, and that combinations make very cool effects. What I don't like is the fact that the mouse is hard-wired to the camera. You can't zoom in, you can't zoom out, you can't see yourself from the side or the front. I don't mind targeting with the mouse, but I do mind that the camera is cemented to it, forcing a constant perspective change. Meaning, I don't mind that part of your ability to hit your target is based on having targeted it with your own skill, not with the skills in the game (the reticule must be over the target as well as your character improving their combat skills, where most games it's just your character's skill that determines a hit). What I mind is that your perspective is constantly forced. The main problem I have with this method actually isn't battle, but -everything else-. While I would like the freedom, during battle, to see my character's animations and awesomeness from other angles (the animations are a great appeal to a video game) what is actually grating is when I'm trying to walk around the rest of the world and want to interact with anything. Toggling "out" of game play in order to do anything interrupts the flow in ways that I never realized were so jarring until I was forced to do it. I am not suggesting that the whole game has to be forced to my way, but I would very much like to see the option (like so many games have) to NOT be in "chase camera" mode. Leave it as an option for the people who adore it, but please provide a free moving camera for those of us who are finding it almost impossible to play the current way?
Thing #2 is overcome-able, though it was a bitter disappointment. One of the things that absolutely gripped me and refused to let me go in STO (which I still play a couple times a week) was the character generator and graphics. Never have I seen a game with a character generator that even approaches the over-the-top epic-ness of STO. It's alarming how good it is. Right down to the ability to customize your uniform to your tastes (I spent more money on that than any other part of the game and would buy more if more was available). The level of detail and the spectacular graphics are jaw-dropping. I was giddy with the expectation that the STO generator would be utilized from one Cryptic game to the next. Well, while it appears that the generator IS available, the race appearances and graphics are, alas, not nearly what I was hoping for. They're still good, but their options are so limited at this point that it has ruined my chances of having a character look like I'd hoped. This, I think, may be slowly addressed over time as I lower my expectations (bad) and as Cryptic continues to add races and appearances (good). It is, however, still part of why I'm not motivated to grit my teeth and force myself through the jarring, off-putting interface to enjoy the game.
Thing #3 is already in the works, apparently, and that is only to be expected with a game doing a soft-launch "open beta" of months-long proportions. That is the class options. At launch there were absolutely no classes that interested me on a personal level. I'm not saying the classes are bad, but just that randomly the kinds of classes I like to play are unavailable. Now, I had done research on this too - despite not having the budget for it, I purchased AD&D 4.0 and played it with my role playing crowd. I've been playing AD&D since 1st edition, and have learned each new ruleset. It was clear to me that 4.0 was Wizards of the Coast's begging bid to be turned into an MMO. I don't begrudge them, and I am impressed with a few of the ideas they came up with. Unfortunately, only one game I have ever played seems to have NAILED healers - EverQuest. Most games simply relegate them to pathetic support status and then beef up their offense or other abilities to compensate. Some games are slightly better than others, but only EQ seems to really understand the potential of healers. This "thing 3" is lowest on my top three list because there are more classes coming out, and every MMO spends time tinkering with the various classes, trying to bring appropriate balance to the game (though I am not sure "nerfing" is the right way to go, people should understand each classes' role and how to measure them).
Anyway, sorry for the long rant. I really wanted this game to be the be-all-and-end-all of my gaming experience. I watched for news of it every day for over a year. I jumped in the instant it was available on Open Beta (I was never selected for earlier betas or would have tried it then). I waited several weeks before posting this, hoping to find some cosmic shift in my personality that allowed me to overcome my major reluctance to play what I had hoped would be the best thing ever. I think I have realized what issues there are for me. I am only one person, and I know there are probably plenty of people on the opposite side of my issues (though as I'm asking for inclusion rather than exclusion - for options rather than taking away what they like, I don't see how they can be). I don't know as Cryptic actually reads every post, so this may be just me annoying a bunch of my fellow players, and even if they did read this I don't know as there is anything they can do at this point to address my overriding, major issue (the mouse-cemented-to-camera-all-the-time UI). But it was at least cathartic. I am going to try signing in again and see if I make it to a full minute before my disappointment with the UI throws me out of what otherwise is a spectacular game.
I have seen a few other threads on the forums that cover parts of this topic, but they appear to be locked, so I would like to present my case.
Just quickly: I played NwN1 from the day it was released until about 10 months after it was no longer supported. Since that time I've been basically game-homeless, wandering from system to system in a melancholy daze, unhappy with most of what I've seen out there (though I have played a few other MMOs and been pleased with the experience, nothing that lasted almost 8 years). When I heard Neverwinter MMO was coming out I was so excited I researched everything and when I heard Cryptic had done Star Trek Online, I dove into it to see what they'd done. I am a trekie since age 5, but had not played any SciFi MMOs - Fantasy is more my genre. However, I was floored with how good STO was. I wanted mostly to check out the foundry because I love to create content, but the entire STO experience rocked me to my core. I couldn't believe how much fun I had playing SciFi (even, as stated, being a Trekie when the original series was the only thing available).
When Neverwinter MMO went to Open Beta I was again rocked to my core, but this time in a horrible, jarring, depth-of-despair way. The content and story are fine, the graphics are okay, but there were three issues that, combined, were deal-breakers. I just couldn't play. I tried every day for three weeks, sometimes getting no more than 30 seconds in before I had to exit.
Absolutely #1 and totally leaving me unable to continue is the user interface. Please understand my objection, there are many misunderstandings about the UI out there. I totally get the "simpler battle" thing, though honestly a lot of us LIKE the idea of being complex in our battle skills. I do like that there are fewer buttons to press, and that combinations make very cool effects. What I don't like is the fact that the mouse is hard-wired to the camera. You can't zoom in, you can't zoom out, you can't see yourself from the side or the front. I don't mind targeting with the mouse, but I do mind that the camera is cemented to it, forcing a constant perspective change. Meaning, I don't mind that part of your ability to hit your target is based on having targeted it with your own skill, not with the skills in the game (the reticule must be over the target as well as your character improving their combat skills, where most games it's just your character's skill that determines a hit). What I mind is that your perspective is constantly forced. The main problem I have with this method actually isn't battle, but -everything else-. While I would like the freedom, during battle, to see my character's animations and awesomeness from other angles (the animations are a great appeal to a video game) what is actually grating is when I'm trying to walk around the rest of the world and want to interact with anything. Toggling "out" of game play in order to do anything interrupts the flow in ways that I never realized were so jarring until I was forced to do it. I am not suggesting that the whole game has to be forced to my way, but I would very much like to see the option (like so many games have) to NOT be in "chase camera" mode. Leave it as an option for the people who adore it, but please provide a free moving camera for those of us who are finding it almost impossible to play the current way?
Thing #2 is overcome-able, though it was a bitter disappointment. One of the things that absolutely gripped me and refused to let me go in STO (which I still play a couple times a week) was the character generator and graphics. Never have I seen a game with a character generator that even approaches the over-the-top epic-ness of STO. It's alarming how good it is. Right down to the ability to customize your uniform to your tastes (I spent more money on that than any other part of the game and would buy more if more was available). The level of detail and the spectacular graphics are jaw-dropping. I was giddy with the expectation that the STO generator would be utilized from one Cryptic game to the next. Well, while it appears that the generator IS available, the race appearances and graphics are, alas, not nearly what I was hoping for. They're still good, but their options are so limited at this point that it has ruined my chances of having a character look like I'd hoped. This, I think, may be slowly addressed over time as I lower my expectations (bad) and as Cryptic continues to add races and appearances (good). It is, however, still part of why I'm not motivated to grit my teeth and force myself through the jarring, off-putting interface to enjoy the game.
Thing #3 is already in the works, apparently, and that is only to be expected with a game doing a soft-launch "open beta" of months-long proportions. That is the class options. At launch there were absolutely no classes that interested me on a personal level. I'm not saying the classes are bad, but just that randomly the kinds of classes I like to play are unavailable. Now, I had done research on this too - despite not having the budget for it, I purchased AD&D 4.0 and played it with my role playing crowd. I've been playing AD&D since 1st edition, and have learned each new ruleset. It was clear to me that 4.0 was Wizards of the Coast's begging bid to be turned into an MMO. I don't begrudge them, and I am impressed with a few of the ideas they came up with. Unfortunately, only one game I have ever played seems to have NAILED healers - EverQuest. Most games simply relegate them to pathetic support status and then beef up their offense or other abilities to compensate. Some games are slightly better than others, but only EQ seems to really understand the potential of healers. This "thing 3" is lowest on my top three list because there are more classes coming out, and every MMO spends time tinkering with the various classes, trying to bring appropriate balance to the game (though I am not sure "nerfing" is the right way to go, people should understand each classes' role and how to measure them).
Anyway, sorry for the long rant. I really wanted this game to be the be-all-and-end-all of my gaming experience. I watched for news of it every day for over a year. I jumped in the instant it was available on Open Beta (I was never selected for earlier betas or would have tried it then). I waited several weeks before posting this, hoping to find some cosmic shift in my personality that allowed me to overcome my major reluctance to play what I had hoped would be the best thing ever. I think I have realized what issues there are for me. I am only one person, and I know there are probably plenty of people on the opposite side of my issues (though as I'm asking for inclusion rather than exclusion - for options rather than taking away what they like, I don't see how they can be). I don't know as Cryptic actually reads every post, so this may be just me annoying a bunch of my fellow players, and even if they did read this I don't know as there is anything they can do at this point to address my overriding, major issue (the mouse-cemented-to-camera-all-the-time UI). But it was at least cathartic. I am going to try signing in again and see if I make it to a full minute before my disappointment with the UI throws me out of what otherwise is a spectacular game.
Post edited by dragontayl on
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Comments
It's like being in "shooter mode" all the time. Pick your game (like Star Trek Online) where you can run around most of the time but you can also go into shooter mode for more accurate shots or the FPS perspective. The problem is that you can't get OUT of shooter mode. Even out of combat.
I did specifically state that I like the simpler combat, and the way combinations of attacks bring you higher effects rather than stack and stacks of hotbars (I had eight in EQ for most characters!! Ouch!) but I do not like the constant forced "shooter mode".
Also, years of NWN1 but no NWN2? Missing out, man.
Yeah, I'm a content developer when it comes to NwN, so when NwN2 came out and the multiplayer, DM, and toolset were total let-downs, I didn't stick with it. Honestly I'd expected more with NwN2 also. I do have a full copy with both expansions, but I never quite got into it.
I'm not suggesting other people have to give up their Neverwinter FPS. I am just saying that for those of us whose opinion is that RPGs should NOT be FPS, we can both be happy. STO offers FPS/shooter mode, but you can also exit it. Same thing with both previous NwN games. You can actually play fully 1st person in both NwN as I recall (but it has been some time). But the fact is that options were taken away instead of added and it is limiting. I totally recognize (and mentioned in my original post) there are a whole host of people who think differently than me - we all like something a little bit different I suspect. I can't have it all my way, all the time. I wouldn't mind having the option though, for something as crucial as your all-the-time perspective in a game, to see it in a way less diametrically opposed to the way I play. What do I care if someone else can play the game their way? I think that's GREAT! But my way has been specifically carved out of this game.