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GF and Tanking Feedback
w41kr
Member Posts: 0 Arc User
Before I begin I'd just like to say that I haven't been playing the game for more than a week and am only level 34, so my opinions might be formed prematurely as they don't take endgame status into account. Never the less, I've played tanks many times in other MMOs and, although I'm not max level on my GF, feel like my experiences thus far have allowed me to develop a pretty good idea of the problems that are facing the GF currently.
Most of this stuff has already been mentioned plenty of times in previous threads, so I'm not looking to spark an enormous discussion. However, I feel like, for any game in OB, the more people providing feedback the better.
First. Threat. Threat, as far as I can tell, has no real rhyme or reason to it. Mobs still like to run all over the place just moments after Enforced Threat is used despite it's description "causing [foes] to attack you". At first I thought this might be the fault of teammates' companions taunting off me, but the more I play the more I fail to understand the threat system this game employs. There are times when my Rank 13 Cleric companion will, after one heal, pull aggro on mobs whom I have already dealt half their life in damage to. Unless mobs wipe their threat tables very frequently, I can't comprehend what makes these heals so very threatening.
I realize that the traditional style of tanking in MMOs (where all the mobs form a perfect semicircle around the tank and never move) isn't the style CST might have had in mind. However, currently the GF's role in a group seems highly deminished due to their inability to do the one thing they're designed to do.
Second. Blocking. What? What is happening here? At least that's what I find myself asking every 30 seconds. Am I blocking or not? Most of the time I have to wait until I get hit to see if im truly blocking or not, and if I'm not, my only solution is to release the Shift key and press it down again while hoping for the best. I like the idea of an active block ability, especially since it opens up the potential for two more "at will" abilities while blocking. I know blocking has recently undergone some changes for the worst and that its current state is (hopefully) far from working as intended, but until it get gets fixed GFs are even worse off than they already are.
Third. Along the same lines as blocking. Guard. It doesn't seem to scale with anything except feats which are in short supply considering the Protector feat path is very subpar unless you're okay with generating next to zero threat. Guard either needs to scale with one or more other stats (Recovery/Defense) or shields need to have a specific stat listed on the item that affects the Guard Meter. Without this, Guard will become worse and worse as gear gets better and better.
Fourth. Animations. They're long. Really long considering reaction time is, arguably, more important for a tank than for any other role. Animations for Enforced Threat and Mark are painfully long and leave you entirely exposed while they execute. Attacking animations are also extremely long. I can't tell you how many times I've "stood in the fire" for too long because my character is executing an animation I so desperately wish I could cancel. I know that reducing the animations for attacks might yeild a higher DPS and everything would have to be rebalanced, and I know it's very unlikely that the solution is to allow attacking while moving, so instead why not make the "jump" key break animation? Jump + Direction = leap in that direction canceling the current action/animation. This would make character controls feel much more responsive and allow players to mitigate much more damage by allowing them to position themselves with less frustration.
Fifth. General Control. This is largely a problem with animations. Combat in general just feels clumsy largely due to the long animations, the inability to cancel them, and the fact that sometimes you find yourself overly committed to an AA chain that is moving you in a direction you don't want to be traveling in. I know many people will probably disagree with me here, but if it was up to me I'd just remove the forward motion on all attacks. I'm aware that, to most people, this is mostly a L2P issue which is a fair assessment; it isn't a huge deal as it can obviously be overcome relatively easily, but it still removes an amount of control from the player and leaves combat feeling slightly more awkward than it should.
Lastly. Why is there only one forum for GWF and GF?
Again, I know the opinions I've formed are from nothing more than reading the forums, leveling and completing the dungeons up to level 34 with a PUG. However, given that leveling is something every player has to do to even reach end game, it's possible that GFs will become very underrepresented in the end game if every player leveling one becomes as disappointed with them as I have. As I said above, I've played many tanks in many different MMOs prior to this one, and while I've experienced my fair share of difficult encounters, I have to say tanking in this game is far more frustrating than any other game. I feel that this is due to our main defensive ability being unreliable, effective threat generation a nightmare, and awkward, clumsy controls.
Overall I feel like this game has a lot going for it, and while I might not be impressed with the state of GFs at the moment, I won't be quitting mine; I realize the game is still in open beta, and there are a lot of things that still need to be addressed. I hope this post didn't come across as too negative as I only intended to provide feedback based off my limited experiences.
Most of this stuff has already been mentioned plenty of times in previous threads, so I'm not looking to spark an enormous discussion. However, I feel like, for any game in OB, the more people providing feedback the better.
First. Threat. Threat, as far as I can tell, has no real rhyme or reason to it. Mobs still like to run all over the place just moments after Enforced Threat is used despite it's description "causing [foes] to attack you". At first I thought this might be the fault of teammates' companions taunting off me, but the more I play the more I fail to understand the threat system this game employs. There are times when my Rank 13 Cleric companion will, after one heal, pull aggro on mobs whom I have already dealt half their life in damage to. Unless mobs wipe their threat tables very frequently, I can't comprehend what makes these heals so very threatening.
I realize that the traditional style of tanking in MMOs (where all the mobs form a perfect semicircle around the tank and never move) isn't the style CST might have had in mind. However, currently the GF's role in a group seems highly deminished due to their inability to do the one thing they're designed to do.
Second. Blocking. What? What is happening here? At least that's what I find myself asking every 30 seconds. Am I blocking or not? Most of the time I have to wait until I get hit to see if im truly blocking or not, and if I'm not, my only solution is to release the Shift key and press it down again while hoping for the best. I like the idea of an active block ability, especially since it opens up the potential for two more "at will" abilities while blocking. I know blocking has recently undergone some changes for the worst and that its current state is (hopefully) far from working as intended, but until it get gets fixed GFs are even worse off than they already are.
Third. Along the same lines as blocking. Guard. It doesn't seem to scale with anything except feats which are in short supply considering the Protector feat path is very subpar unless you're okay with generating next to zero threat. Guard either needs to scale with one or more other stats (Recovery/Defense) or shields need to have a specific stat listed on the item that affects the Guard Meter. Without this, Guard will become worse and worse as gear gets better and better.
Fourth. Animations. They're long. Really long considering reaction time is, arguably, more important for a tank than for any other role. Animations for Enforced Threat and Mark are painfully long and leave you entirely exposed while they execute. Attacking animations are also extremely long. I can't tell you how many times I've "stood in the fire" for too long because my character is executing an animation I so desperately wish I could cancel. I know that reducing the animations for attacks might yeild a higher DPS and everything would have to be rebalanced, and I know it's very unlikely that the solution is to allow attacking while moving, so instead why not make the "jump" key break animation? Jump + Direction = leap in that direction canceling the current action/animation. This would make character controls feel much more responsive and allow players to mitigate much more damage by allowing them to position themselves with less frustration.
Fifth. General Control. This is largely a problem with animations. Combat in general just feels clumsy largely due to the long animations, the inability to cancel them, and the fact that sometimes you find yourself overly committed to an AA chain that is moving you in a direction you don't want to be traveling in. I know many people will probably disagree with me here, but if it was up to me I'd just remove the forward motion on all attacks. I'm aware that, to most people, this is mostly a L2P issue which is a fair assessment; it isn't a huge deal as it can obviously be overcome relatively easily, but it still removes an amount of control from the player and leaves combat feeling slightly more awkward than it should.
Lastly. Why is there only one forum for GWF and GF?
Again, I know the opinions I've formed are from nothing more than reading the forums, leveling and completing the dungeons up to level 34 with a PUG. However, given that leveling is something every player has to do to even reach end game, it's possible that GFs will become very underrepresented in the end game if every player leveling one becomes as disappointed with them as I have. As I said above, I've played many tanks in many different MMOs prior to this one, and while I've experienced my fair share of difficult encounters, I have to say tanking in this game is far more frustrating than any other game. I feel that this is due to our main defensive ability being unreliable, effective threat generation a nightmare, and awkward, clumsy controls.
Overall I feel like this game has a lot going for it, and while I might not be impressed with the state of GFs at the moment, I won't be quitting mine; I realize the game is still in open beta, and there are a lot of things that still need to be addressed. I hope this post didn't come across as too negative as I only intended to provide feedback based off my limited experiences.
Post edited by w41kr on
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Comments
I wish they would , but they wont...
take a look at twitter they only worry about gateway issues,zen shop items and things like that, and on the foruns they say nothing, complete silence about gameplay issues, but again if you post about zen stuff or gateway stuff they will give a answer...
The thing that makes or breaks a game is gameplay and i think that didnt realize that yet...
maybe they will stop spending time developing stuff for Zen store when they realize that they lost most of their player base and there is almost noone to buy stuff from zen store...
1 month after "launch" (this cant be called beta lol ) and after hundreds of reports of gamebreaking bugs about several classes,guardian block and several feats,complete bogus threat and lack of utility, gwf completly underpowered, ninja looting everywhere, players kicking others in pvp, players kicking others at the end of a boss fight in a dungeon so they can get all the loot for them,and really several other stuff like that that we can all see at the hundreds of posts in the forum, and they stay in silence, only saying to us that we should read that HAMSTER article "the state of the game"..
For me it may be too late... i am logging way less than i use to a week ago, dont have the will to play my guardian, dont want to reroll a new class,and i WILL NOT spend more money on this game...
they are taking too long to release class fixes and balance updates, they arent adressing the issues that classes have and the silence on the foruns from Devs only makes things worse for me..
I dont think that they really expected the game to be so popular and they are way over their head (hope thats not the case)
im only giving this game 1 or 2 more weeks maximum... and NO you cant have my stuff :P
if things stay the same , im moving on, maybe i will go back to my previous MMO (played WoW for about 6 years but i left it because i was really bored and had enough of that game and hoped that this one would mantain my interess for more than a month, ) or maybe i will wait untill wildstar or the elder scrolls launch...
the thing is that if in 2 weeks max this game stays the same i will unninstall and never look back...
Cant they understand that if the classes are adressed , the gameplay bugs fixed and balanced people will be happy and play the game and spend more money?
and im not living in a dream world, i know that perfect class balance is impossible in any MMO,but hey a month after launch, several fixes and adictions to gateway, several adictions to zen store and ZERO class fixes?
a "SOON" patch that they tell its going to happen doesnt seem enough to me, when we all know what "soon" means...
Sorry for bad english