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Control wizard and the importance of Wisdom
zierzo
Member Posts: 17 Arc User
How much maximum score on Wisdom do you think is advisable from a pure "control" perspective (control powers duration / resistance), affecting enemy resistance to control impairing effects maybe ... Do you know other factors of importance about it (always regarding pure control, not action points etc) ? pve / pvp
In other words, do you think is justifiable to invest lets say past 18 final score on wisdom just for the control effects. Not taking into account recharge, action points, neither balance with int / cha. Just the things wisdom grants that you cant get from recovery or any other source.
Thanks you for the insight
In other words, do you think is justifiable to invest lets say past 18 final score on wisdom just for the control effects. Not taking into account recharge, action points, neither balance with int / cha. Just the things wisdom grants that you cant get from recovery or any other source.
Thanks you for the insight
Post edited by zierzo on
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Difficult to say, but I'm interested in it as well. What follows is pure speculation. Write me off if you so choose. I've nothing to back any of this. I'm just trying to think through this logically. If I had the exact base duration number for wizard powers, I could probably do a more in-depth analysis of Control Uptime increase and your ability to take something out of the fight.
-- If you capped it, you could end the game with what, 26 wisdom, 27 with campfire buff, for 16-17% control bonus.
Assuming that's applied to duration and nothing else, The results might not be very pretty. Your longest lasting control effects (which it seems most people abandon at endgame) are Entangling Force and Freeze, which both seem to last around 5 seconds. Your mega wisdom might bring that up to closer to 6 seconds. A not-terrible increase when it comes to taking something out of the fight. Similarly, if it affects the duration of Ray, that's an extra second of increased damage for the party. A strong use of an ability.
But the vast majority of your other CCs don't receive nearly as much benefit. How long does the Prone of Shard last*? The immobilize of Icy Terrain? The Stun of Chill Strike? Do ANY of these last for more than a second? So you're gaining, what, less than a quarter of a second on duration with stacked wis.
Overall, I'm not sure that increase is warranted for the amount of effort you put in to attaining pure Control bonus in a setup where Wisdom and Orb affect duration only.
*Note: Shard can prone a single trash mob twice, which could double-up on the bonus and increase it's usefulness as a Pure CC power. This is one of the reasons I want them to remove the -Cooldown from Shard ranks and add +Prone Duration to it. It would make it a viable and valuable power if Rank3 shard had a nice little 2-3second prone on it, up to 2.6-3.9seconds with orb/wis, up to 5.2-7.8 seconds of prone goodness if you isolated a piece of trash with it.
If powers with no duration receive a boost from Wisdom (and orb), the build is a little more helpful. Repulse and shield might push 30% further with Orb and Wis. Singularity might get a faster pull. But that feels like wishlist stuff, for the most part.
All these speculations aside, I'm sure you realize that we cannot separate wisdom from it's role in AP Gain and Recharge Speed. These features are invaluable to "Pure Control", allowing us to perform more frequently, at a level difficult to match with +Recovery items alone. I can't even fathom how much +Recovery you'd have to stack beyond the softcap if you wanted to completely dump wisdom, yet be competitive with someone rocking a 20 or so. You might have to sink, what, an extra 1200-1500 points into Recovery at subprime gains just to come out even,
That is, of course, assuming Control matters to you. It might not. And if it doesn't, Charisma is certainly the superior choice. I don't think a damage-oriented wizard would miss 15% control bonus in the least when they're rocking 15% more critical chance and CA damage on their powers.
More testing required.
Maybe that's what I'll do after I wake up. Test some durations.
spellstorm mage is all about crits and buffs that increase your damage
you can do: 24 int, 20 wis and 16 cha for example
To make it short yes , but wanted to go somewhat more in depth
I'm aware of for the "control" aspect of wizard the other stats / factors are of as much or more importance in the final scheme, ie having enough recovery to have the key cooldowns up, generating action points fast via damage (int / crit / power) for singularity or other dailies, etc. But wanted to evaluate wisdom as the suposelly key stat of the class in that regard, and other possible hidden features for the sake of it, because at first glance as dematto thoroughly exposed it doesnt seems worth of investing much on (namely past 18-20, more seems like a waste).
You can get wider benefits specifically for the control aspect via int / cha and other stats with the current endgame content. And even with a more focused control feat tree / powers in mind besides the more extended / effective renegade etc playstyles, for example opressor feats (leaving aside bugged most of them), a cold/chill focused build, and even in these cases wisdom doesnt seems to cut it, a pitty, leaving character choices limited and then boring, at the current state of the game.
When they release the next pure DPS ranged class (Sniper, Warlock) and more paragon, your Wiz with 24 CHA will be useless
LOL I don't care what classes they introduce, a high CHA CW will NEVER be useless. The new range dps class with either be as effective as a TR dps wise, or as bad as a GWF. In both cases, you still wont be able to replace a CW.
I don't really understand the obsession of some CW players to want to create a pure "Control" CW. Honestly what content, what T1 or even T2 dungeon did a CW feel that if they had an extra 10%/15% on their CC effects, things would have been better? Regardless, if someone feels like they just need to create a CW with more CC, they might as well just go the Cold tree, and STILL not sacrifice CHA over WIS.
If you're going for WIS it should be for other things.
With the extra wisdom, it is has been more noticably easy to maintain the "perma black hole". I basically cast Arcane Singularity, pop shield, then cast a tabbed entangling force while they are still getting sucked up...once they drop I cast steal time....by then my daily is refilled. I cast it again and do the same cycle. Usually the trash is dead by then so it doesn't refill my bar fully, but it gets pretty darn close. What is left are usually the 1 or 2 high hp elites that I can refill my bar with magic missiles or any refreshed encounters. So basically, I can "control" the masses long enough for the group to kill off most of the baddies while still doing enough DPS to be either #1 or #2 at the end of the dungeon. This level of control keeps numbers manageable enough so that one person doesn't get unlucky and die (and thus avoiding the run back to group).
I can't say I notice a huge drop in DPS either. I only lost like 4% chance to crit (which I don't notice any lesser frequency of crits or a drop in combat advantage damage), but I can definitely notice a gain in AP. I used to have a hard time reflling my AP bar for a second casting of Arcane Singularity.
1: Your Control skills last fraction longer, giving more time to get the increased AP rate from feat
2: All powers cooldown fraction faster, which means more control skills, and more AP
3: Your AP will fill much faster because of Wisdom bonus, allowing more daily, and if daily is control such as singularity, that mean more increase AP gain while its up.
directly or indirectly, all 3 effects all add to AP, and that makes perma black holes much easier to pull off.
to some that 0.2 might seem like nothing at all, but when its 0.2 x number power you usng in short time, over the duration of a long fight, it soon adds up substantially
100% agreed. For some reason people tend to dismiss the simple fact that they are playing CONTROL wizards, not Crit Wizards nor Powerhouse wizards. Control is everything. How fast your skills recharge and gain you AP for another black hole which saves your team is crucial. Apart from enabling you to better do your role (controlling mobs, not dpsing them) it gives boost to overall dps a lot. When I increased my recovery from 3k to 5.5k im constantly on top of dungeon dps table, together with wizards that have much better gear and weapons and above others. Recovery all the way. For crit 1k crit + eye of the storm passive is sufficient.
So in light of these assertions it seems a feasible path to give wisdom the focus it deserves, to emphasize a slight different approach to the game, besides the successful all INT / CHA -> dps focus playstyle (which is great ofc).
The point is what could be good balance between Int and Wis, which to prioritize if any. At first glance Int would seem the key stat still, but lets remember that Power stat has a linear gain (no DR), opposed to recovery which has serious DR after 2500 - 3000.
May I ask you what was your respec distribution? From what you explain I would say you rolled an initial INT/WIS/CHA 16/12/16 , and left the final ability distribution after the respec to something like 24/18/20 maybe?