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Dungeons, Aggro, Clerics & GFs
tirwen1
Member Posts: 104 Arc User
Having gotten fed up trying to do T1 dungeons since I not only wind up dying constantly but get yelled out for getting all the agro, I decided to check out some normal dungeons. I started with Cragmire since I hadn't done that one. I could not (at 60 mind you) solo the boss. Okay, so take a step back and try Cloak Tower. Level 60 should be piece of cake. Here's what I discovered. Aggro in dungeons does -not- work the same way it does outside. I don't know if it's because they're using some variation of challenge rating or what.
Level 60 cleric walks into a room with mobs on the other side and instantly gets agro.
Level 24 CW walks into same room and is able to note the mobs and their number and type before they aggro.
Normal MMOs and the outside area work on the premise of the size of your aggro bubble. The higher your level vs the mob's, the smaller the bubble and less likely to draw aggro. Neither of those characters got aggro on the way to CT even if they walked through them
So today, I brought a 24 GF friend to test this. He was able to see first-hand that my aggro is way out of proportion. Most of the time he could get most of them off me, but it was a lot of work and not always successful. Then there was the boss. Every time a boss summoned mobs, they went straight for me, even without casting a single spell. I'm level 60, and they're 17.
I've played a lot of different MMOs - EQ, DAoC, FF, WoW, GW, GW2, Zuu, Grand Fantasia, Mabinogi, and SWTOR. I was a god on a FR-base MUD and created zones. Aggro is not supposed to work the way it's working now in dungeons. Even if you say the mobs should attack the healer, look at the level difference. If you want to think in terms of rp, are you going to attack someone 3 times your size? No.
Devs, save yourself some time. It's the dungeon aggro more than anything else. Take a look at how it'd being figured in there. Something is most definitely wrong.
Level 60 cleric walks into a room with mobs on the other side and instantly gets agro.
Level 24 CW walks into same room and is able to note the mobs and their number and type before they aggro.
Normal MMOs and the outside area work on the premise of the size of your aggro bubble. The higher your level vs the mob's, the smaller the bubble and less likely to draw aggro. Neither of those characters got aggro on the way to CT even if they walked through them
So today, I brought a 24 GF friend to test this. He was able to see first-hand that my aggro is way out of proportion. Most of the time he could get most of them off me, but it was a lot of work and not always successful. Then there was the boss. Every time a boss summoned mobs, they went straight for me, even without casting a single spell. I'm level 60, and they're 17.
I've played a lot of different MMOs - EQ, DAoC, FF, WoW, GW, GW2, Zuu, Grand Fantasia, Mabinogi, and SWTOR. I was a god on a FR-base MUD and created zones. Aggro is not supposed to work the way it's working now in dungeons. Even if you say the mobs should attack the healer, look at the level difference. If you want to think in terms of rp, are you going to attack someone 3 times your size? No.
Devs, save yourself some time. It's the dungeon aggro more than anything else. Take a look at how it'd being figured in there. Something is most definitely wrong.
Post edited by tirwen1 on
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i been in a 5 man group with two tanks on normal lvl 60 dungeons and seen the mobs and bosses ignore the tanks and go straight for the dc. and this is the reason a lot of players that play dc wont play these dungeons. and there is a lot of posts here in this forum if you search for them. and so far as i know not a single one of the reports have been acknowledged as being looked into yet.
a lot of players that play gf's or dc's are upset that their tanking and healing skills are useless in group.
Weird, I did Idris earlier (though, the level 34 one). I got a blue shirt from the chest and some other item i don't remember the name of. Though, the chest didn't say I was going to receive an item.
Dc's have a -40% debuff to heals to self. why would you want the agro? the healer is there to keep the party alive that is doing and receiving all the damage. the tank should be able to hold "most" of the agro. if the dps pile more agro on than the tank, they receive the threat. heals should be last in line for mobs to chase. Dungeons are a mess, everyone's always in a scramble, the dc is at the top of damage taken even in a well geared group. People are running epics without tanks, yuuuup, sounds like this isn't broken.
The end games strats are that way because the current system is broken. DCs are HEALERS not tanks.
That's the point I was trying to make. When a 60 DC can walk into a level 17-ish dungeon and draw aggro from across the room without doing a thing, something is wrong, especially when a 24 CW can walk into the same room and have plenty of time to react before getting aggro. Even if you're talking from an rp perspective as cinnick suggests, a couple of grunts are not likely to take on someone 4 times their size.
Very well put. You are exactly right about the roles. I would add that in D&D, clerics normally wield a weapon, such as a mace. Instead, we get a holy symbol and an icon. In D&D terms, the radiant damage on some of the DC spells also should do extra damage to some creatures (undead, among others, if I'm remembering right). (I'll also point out that in 4th ed, everyone can take a second wind and spend a healing surge).
Even if we're talking about mechanics, though, that still doesn't explain the crazy size of a cleric's aggro in dungeons. Even without casting a spell and being substantially higher level than the mobs, I can draw aggro from across a room. Normally, in MMOs there a couple of things taken into account for agro - the difference in level vs mobs, the armor class/health, the damage/healing, and taunts. I haven't gotten this much aggro since EQ, and that was when I was low-level (or naked getting my corpse back) and running through a higher level zone. I can go past level 52 mobs outside without getting any agro whatsoever, but I walk into a 17 dungeon and get it immediately.