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Des Trickster Rogue PvP Stream and Info/Guide
saythin
Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 130 Bounty Hunter
Hello all my fellow trickster rogues and fellow trickster rogue haters, I am a PvP freak, in any game I ever play I pvp, If I can level through pvp I LEVEL THROUGH PVP. And I rage at things that erk me LOL
Hopefully this can be a helpful thread for any rogues good or bad wanting to troll or wanting to learn. First off my I say that this thread will ONLY be based off pvp. I have no concerns nor do I care about any PvE so do NOT ask.
Updates and News!
-updated spec and powers screenshots
-Hit 150 followers! giveaway this upcoming saturday or the following on my twitch channel!
Post1: Overview, info on Rogue class
Post2: Possible balance changes and remarks
Post3: Level 60 PvP build to dominate the bracket
FIRST PVP MONTAGE RELEASED!
Watch video till end for surprise!
Available in 1080P HD!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LTuOxmxG_gA
Stream - www.twitch.tv/desololive 1080p+ Trickster rogue PvP
Some Pictures - http://desolo.imgur.com/neverwinter
TRICKSTER "WEAVING" (Jump Trick)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZXI8qpFsFNE
Overview
What comes to mind when you first think of a rogue?
Before you can even dare play a stealth based class commonly known as a rogue, What do they even do? In every game I have ever played that consisted a stealth base class, what first comes to mind for me is, Invisible, Ganker, High burst of damage, Sneaky and last but not least What I mainly feel a rogues role is a PUNISHER. Yes thats right, a punisher. Why?
A rogues job is and has always been the "harass" role, sneaky, irritating, just want to get you off. But most importantly, the rogue has the ability to punish, Punish people for their mistakes. Every class consists of this, but rogues can punish someone to the point where they don't want to even play.
What differences dictate whether someone is a good rogue or bad one?
In every game, every class, in pvp it ALL comes down to one thing in the end, Attention to Detail. You need to have amazing awareness skills in order to get far in any game in any pvp, in Neverwinter's case, You must have the ability to know when to use what when, where, and WHY. You must have the mentality to outsmart the other person. This early into the game not many people know every class's excact abilities, but paying attention will dictate what makes a rogue good or bad. A good rogue will know what to do when the enemy makes a move.
You suck, you are playing an overpowered broken class, GTFO?
First of all, if you were any PvP literate you would know that Rogues so far is up there for the highest skillcap. A bad rogue will be utter HAMSTER. A good one will destroy anyone who sucks and does not know how to play. There is games where I completely destroy the game because people dont know how to use their fingers and dodge. And there is some games where OCW's (out of control wizards) actually know how to play and will completely deny me forever and always, and game mechanic wise I can do nothing about it.
Powers, feats? What do I even use?
Skills
Sadly although many of you might not care or even listen. This games rogue PvP spec is VERY linear. With everything I have tried. Majority of all rogue skills, are useless in pvp.
The basic build which probably won't ever change, is :
Encounters - Dazing Strike OR Smoke bomb / Lashing Blade / Deft strike (with exception of Impossible to catch)
This is the linear part. You NEED as a rogue, some sort of cc, disorient, which is where dazing or smoke bomb comes in, The stun is to ineffective lasts for about 1 second and you NEED to be opening with stealth in order for it to stun
(impact shot) Completely useless and not worth it, The daze from dazing strike lasts longer. You NEED damage, Lashing blade is great damage, hardest hitting encounter ability, You need an instant cast hard hitting ability to get off quick, Auto attacking is VERY hard to get off on good people. And lastly, you NEED a gap closer other than dodge, and deft strikes shadowstep mechanic is PERFECT also slows the target briefly allowing you to get some hits off.
Auto attack's
Duelist's flurry / Cloud of steel
DF is GREAT, it may seem like it sucks when you first start using it BUT, The last strike does bleed damage AND also acts like a gap closer if landed. You will stick to the target while your last strike is being animated UNLESS he dodges and if he dodges, that is GOOD for you. Cloud of steel because it's actually good damage as a finisher for someone running away from you with low health, VERY fast so if someone is mounted you can easily get 3 strikes off within 5 seconds to mount them off. And quite frankly the others just plain SUCK.
For Class features I use Sneak attack and Skillful Infiltrator. Depending on wether you want to go a crit build or glass cannon, these are not set in stone. use to your discretion it jsut works best for me because I like to haul HAMSTER$ and get to places where I need to be.
Daily Powers Lurker's Assault and Shocking Execution
Increased stealth gain AND damage, shocking execution? I don't need to say why ...
.Use Shocking Execution as anEXECUTE. I see rogues using it on people with full hp and I'm like.... wth is wrong with you. Use it on someone with full hp, hit them for squat and watch them get healed back up.... I just laugh
Paragon - My biggest mind **** of this game is whether to go scoundrel or executioner. Now with great decisions comes great min maxing, Basically PVP wise, If you want to go a more crit build BAM executioner , a more base damage power build, go for scoundrel.
Want to be like me because I couldn't make up my mind? Go for Max power/armor pen and spec into saboteur.
The paragon feature is purely based on your play style. Do you prefer being in stealth more? or do you liek to see big numbers crit. all depends on YOU
Enchantments I'm going to be very clear. If you are going to stack any particular stat. Stack Armor Penetration. By far the most beneficiary stat to stack. OR you can spread out your stats like me. I have couple for crit, couple for armor pen, and a couple for power. I want it all.
When you play a rogue, focus on what is going on around you, obviously Red is Dead literally, kill red and red stuff on the ground will get you killed. Pay attention to what people are using.
So I will give a brief explanation of what are some basic thing you can do for each class. But before that let me a explain a nifty thing to you. Try to practice to move forward for about .5 - .7 second in between each auto attack. It's good to learn early so you can know excactly how much time you have to move , this pertains to Duelist's Flurry. you can start setting up some strikes to be able to land a third strike on someone, Just have to learn it you'll understand when you put it to use.
ALSO A BIG TIP. JUMPING! YES! JUMPING IS MY SECRET THAT NOONE USES, AND I WILL SHARE IT WITH YOU ALL. Everyone hates the fact that you have to stop when you use a skill. Jump. no joke. practice jumping when using skills. try it with cloud of steel. Thats the best practice. If you want a GOOD explanation and to see it in action COME to my stream above and watch me play! I might make a video / tutorial on how to do it and why.
Control Wizards
Before we start this class because this is the class EVERYONE has problems with. Just know that against an actual OCW who actually knows what he is doing. It is 100% Impossible to kill him. So do not get discouraged if you meet one you cant kill. I personally think their class is a bit on the strong side, amazing CC, utility, suvivability , and Decent damage.
You can easily find out who a good or a bad control wizard is. NEVER open out of stealth with a lashing blade. UNLESS!!!! he has literally a sliver of health and you know you will get the kill. than by all means do it. You must open with a dazing strike, immediately use lashing blade and the hunt begins. The issue with control wizards is their cc and the fact that they can blink 3 times. Think about it, you have 2 dodges and a deft strike. the only thing he has over you is the cc. You must outplay him, if he blinks, you roll, dont give him a chance to cc you, most control wizards freak out and just want you off them so instantly use a cc, Whenever he blinks use a roll, and for his last third blink, use deft strike so it slows him and proceed to put out as much damage as you can. once he gets away and you used up all your gap closers. you are done. he won. just run away and try to restealth.
every other class is fairly easy to stick to.
Clerics
Simple class, acts just like a wizard with less cc and only 2 blinks. Put out as much damage as you can and when you see them surround themselves with chains Deft strike and dazing strike. Thats the ONLY thing that can stop you from getting to them.
Great Sword fighter
I'm going to be real, Run circles around him and mongoloid damage. you should NEVER have an issue with them.
Guardian Fighter
HOLY HAMSTER I used to HAMSTER on them and than someone moron started the crit build and jesus christ they hit harder than me and can tank my damage. YOU MUST and I repeat you MUST stack DF bleeds and keep them rolling, it will crank at the block gauge. They were easy mode till about 30 - 39 bracket and I start getting crit for 3/4ths my hp.
They have an INFINITE gap closer. Take that into consideration when running from one. I met a GF named SLAMBEEF which I am friends with now since he actually decent. This is proof that they take forever to kill. He was chasing me and would NOT let me go. I kited him around the map and had to pick up 3 map potions before finally being able to kill him. stack bleeds and use dazing when they drop their shield down and pray to god that he doesnt crit you for 3/4ths your hp because its unevitable, do not let him knock you down, pay attention to red and you are good to go.
Trickster Rogues
I specifically made this guide for all you other rogues out there. I have YET to lose to another rogue in a fair and square 1 v 1 I do not understand what in your brain tells you to open with a lashing blade out of stealth on a full hp person....
The BIGGEST thing to remember is. Dazing strike has by far the longest animation in this game hands down you can see it coming from a mile away! he turns purple and jumps in their air crosses his swords. If you have fingers you can easily press dodge or deft strike and his life is ****ED. Who ever gets the first dazing strike off wins.
So I am going to give you guys some tips
firstly always try to use dazing strike while in stealth for the 50% reduced animation, Its our BEST skill. using outside of stealth is to much of a risk and a waste of a cd if you miss it. only use if you KNOW you will get it off. A neat trick is when a control wizard on your team uses his black hole move, run to the black hole and as soon as you seem their entire team go UP use dazing strike IMMEDIATELY you will daze their ENTIRE team. than you watch them all scramble
So for rogues
If he uses dazing strike. dodge and spam cloud of steel.
if he comes up to you wait for him to use his first two strikes of DF and the moment his third strike starts use dazing strike. Gets them EVERY time. you can even get it on the second strike. Just DS as soon as he starts casting an animation. if you see him deft strike, IMMEDIATELY dazing strike behind you, Gets them everytime. Don't even bother chasing him if you got him with a dazing strike and hes running circles. Stop and spam Cloud of steel.
If you get him with a dazing strike and he stands still for some gawd awful reason, DF him and stack the bleeds, I'd them deft him to put the slow on him and Weave your DF and movement to try and land some auto's on him.
So I might add more if I feel the need to or if people actually respond and find this helpful as I find more tips and tricks, other than that I hope you guys might have learned something and enjoyed this info thingy. If you wish to see all of these tips and more in action feel free to stop by mah stream. I'm going to start streaming all the time I think.
All suggestions and/or comments are appreciated even trolls. Literally my FIRST guide/info I have ever made. So sorry for the disorganization. I'll try to respond sorry If I don't I am mainly on the game lol
Post edited by saythin on
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Comments
Rogues are OP nerf them
In reality rogues are by far not OP like people are claiming, so to give a better understanding as to why, let me break it down in pros and cons for you all.
Pros
-HIGH damage
-Stealth
-Ability to Punish someones mistakes (when played correctly)
-Shocking Execution hits like a TRUCK use it when enemy is at 1/4th 1/5th hp and it hits HARD. It's an execute... what do you expect?
Cons
-Easily kited
-Horrible survivability
-No Mobility due to having to stop in place to use an ability
-Linear PvP spec, (1cc,1 dmg, 1 gap closer encounters)
- 1 gap closer (not including dodges)
By far rogues hit the hardest WITH a daily. I have GF's critting me for more than my lashing blade crits. Why is it that someone that can tank, block, cc be able to do more damage than me? Why is it that a CW that can control an ENTIRE team by himself while being able to keep up on damage with me? And of course if rogues are so overpowered and can one shot anyone 100-0, than why can I never kill a cleric who knows how to play his class, in a 1 v 1? Rock paper scissors. But let me ask you guys something, if EVERY class can kite me by simply moving, and with knowledge, dodging the correct abilities that give me an advantage, Every class has something to get away from me and kite me, so let me ask you. If I am paper, who is rock? what class is rock?
The possible balance changes I would suggest is, for purely rogues only, I will not complain about any other class and how to nerf them.
1. If you want to nerf damage, make it so that we can cast abilities on the move and not having to stop, If you want to take away the only thing we have going for us, you must pick up in where we lack the MOST... MOBILITY What people don't want to realize is that you can kite us forever. Hell even a GSF can kite us if they wanted to. GIVE US MORE GAP CLOSERS at least one more.
2. If you want to nerf our damage, you must make it so that we are not visible while in stealth and cant be heard. You can see if a rogue is invisible due to there will be a shadow and a floating "glow" as to where he is. look like the outline of a dagger. Creeping up on someone in stealth jsut for a control wizard to magically cc you somehow is beyond me.
3. Let us be able to use encounters in between DF strikes, OR make the second or third strike a "shadowstep mechanic" Like stated above the biggest issue a rogue has is sticking to someone and thats what MAKES a rogue, the ability to harass.
Ideally I would like atleast another gap closer, everything else I can live with, but all the balance issues is purely based off of if you decide to nerf our damage. If you take away the only thing we have you have to compensate us somewhere else or we will be complete HAMSTER in pvp. It would go from,
No mobility, finally get to someone can put out some good damage
to
No mobility, finally get to someone, didnt hit them for ****, I get kited and do no damage what is the point.
The sad part is that ALL of our damage is COMPLETELY avoidable as the game stands, so HOW can someone complain and say rogues are overpowered WHEN YOU CAN AVOID ALL OF OUR DAMAGE. We have cooldowns on our encounters just like everyone else, when our gap closer is down we are like a bunny in a pit of lions.
You can't nerf one class because they do too much "damage" We are a damage dealer. Nerfing our damage turns us from "damage Dealer" to "Practice dummy"
So before you decide to nerf rogues damage, I hope you take a look at the damage potential of other classes as well of the mechanics needed to play the role of a rogue. Because quite frankly.... other classes are hitting just as hard as me outside of Shocking execution.
Not complaining, but seeing a good CW out run and kite 2 trickster rogues while controlling the other 3 members in a mid fight... Man I could not believe what I saw. I added that person and by far the BEST cw ive seen play, name is Leo Stormborn on Mindflayer.
Other Classes:
To be perfectly honest I see everyone good in their places, What would really balance this gmae is a nerf to rogues damage slightly especially Shocking Execution, and a nerf to cw's damage, sadly they can one shot me. 100 - 0.
Clerics are fine, gf's are fine, gwf's are fine, they do GREAT at their role when played well. All the roles tie in together so cw's staying in clerics god mode buff is a example, protecting the squishies. Rogues try to kill squishies GF's try to keep them off, rock paper scissors.
Screenshot of build:
Screenshot of Powers:
(Right-click, "copy image url" and copy paste it into another window to enlarge the picture)
Like I told everyone. Executioner IS the PvP spec, purely based on critting HUGE numbers! This spec revolves around speccing into executioner and "Speed Swindle" in the Saboteur tree. And sadly, the skill level of this bracket is horrible. Leveling bracket was harder than this. Everyone got lazy and don't even dodge or nothing. But still practice my techniques because when all the competition comes, you will have that edge. Learn to force people to panic, it really messes with them, BUT know your limitations.
My build is based on having GOOD positioning skills, attention to detail, and knowing your limitations. If you have a hard time with it, I'd suggest picking up an IoC build to practice with.
Your main Encounters are Dazing Strike , Lashing Blade, Deft Strike.
I have used IoC, Smokebomb, and Shadowstrike and by far, My build conquers all. (not degrading other peoples builds, just based off of personal testing, I've played the other builds. This shines more in more situations)
Simply run out of a smokebomb, Kite the IoC, and ride out the shadowstrike.
Duelists flurry SURPASSES Sly Flourish, Third strike allows you to follow the target and acts as a GAP closer. Of course you use Cloud of Steel!
Passives Skillful infiltrator, Sneak attack. You run TEH FAST! Helps a lot with mobility which is what you NEED.
Practicing my "weaving" technique will give you the HUGE edge you need in the level 60 PvP bracket. You will completely dominate the bracket. Watch my stream linked above and chekc out past videos to see how I take my technique and maximize its potential.
You must practice not needing IoC and you have to learn how to have good positioning! Attention to detail will dictate whether you are a good rogue or a bad rogue. Always know what you have up, and what you CAN do.
Ability Points:
If you haven't made your toon yet. I'd suggest doing 18 str 18 dex.
If not go for max dex and str secondary. while leveling MAX out str and dex.
http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?197301-Trickster-Rogue-PvP-Stream-and-Info-Guide-(attempt-atleast)
And no, I don't find rogues op (I'm CW, lol, shouldn't be calling other classes op) but it's a very, VERY boring class to face, so much cheeze :P
mimicik!!! one of the best cw's I've played against and with. yes you completely pwned me and one shot me 100 - 0
Oh, stop it you! You make me blush.
But you have to agree your execute daily is more op than mine, mine is atleast dodgeable (if you dodge it's wasted).
yes I do think its broken thus why I dont even use it
I should stop use my Ice Knife and see how long I'll last xD.
lol! i think youll be fine!!!
Tiefling > Half orc > Human > whatever
ive been calling it weaving since you get CoS
xD I sooo love that gif...
What makes Tiefling better than Half Orc? Every TR thread I see, people love the HO.
Also, what makes the Halfling so bad? Both his stat bonuses help the TR. Or is Charisma not useful at all for a TR?
I have learned a lot from your post and stream.
Any tips to kill one on one in the open a CW with the daz,lash,def build? (same initiative)