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Starting at level 35+, Pugs 99% failure rate
hycinthus
Member Posts: 158 Bounty Hunter
I am not level 60 yet, but as a pre-60 person, this is what I am seeing during my levelling up.
I have been noticing this with both skirmish and dungeon, starting at the Mad Dragon lair, and also the Sky pirate skirmish, both big big dragons at the end. Pick up groups are about 99% fail.
The most common reason of fail:
1) No one is killing adds
2) No one responds to anything I say in /party chat. Is it a bug? Can they even read? Or maybe they don't speak English? This is very common, maybe it's a feature of free2play game. No investment, no thought, no care.
3) Since no one responds to anything, they also do not do what I am trying to tell them. I really wonder if they just have chat turned off?
4) The group composition is weird, but this maybe cryptic's fault. Sometimes we get 2 guardians, or 2 clerics, or something weird.
5) Not enough dps, especially with self-healing monsters.
6) Unsurprisingly, it's very common when the 5th member drops. I guess that's just life? So we end up with just 4 people at the last boss. The drop rate of the 5th member is almost every other pug. Due to a)Connection lost, b) ninja need and drop, c)mom calls for dinner, d)gave up. Is this another feature of Free2Play, no investment, no thought, no care?
I think everyone will respond, don't go pugs then, go guild. But please discuss if this is also happening often with you, and what solutions you can think of, whether solutions from our side, or from developers side.
I have been noticing this with both skirmish and dungeon, starting at the Mad Dragon lair, and also the Sky pirate skirmish, both big big dragons at the end. Pick up groups are about 99% fail.
The most common reason of fail:
1) No one is killing adds
2) No one responds to anything I say in /party chat. Is it a bug? Can they even read? Or maybe they don't speak English? This is very common, maybe it's a feature of free2play game. No investment, no thought, no care.
3) Since no one responds to anything, they also do not do what I am trying to tell them. I really wonder if they just have chat turned off?
4) The group composition is weird, but this maybe cryptic's fault. Sometimes we get 2 guardians, or 2 clerics, or something weird.
5) Not enough dps, especially with self-healing monsters.
6) Unsurprisingly, it's very common when the 5th member drops. I guess that's just life? So we end up with just 4 people at the last boss. The drop rate of the 5th member is almost every other pug. Due to a)Connection lost, b) ninja need and drop, c)mom calls for dinner, d)gave up. Is this another feature of Free2Play, no investment, no thought, no care?
I think everyone will respond, don't go pugs then, go guild. But please discuss if this is also happening often with you, and what solutions you can think of, whether solutions from our side, or from developers side.
Post edited by hycinthus on
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Use zone chat to make a proper group of willing, communicative people.
Leave LFG feature for hopeless noobs and rage quitters.
1> actually main role of GWF, but some people try to do GWF as Berserker or Barbarian. other reason the group might want to do the Dungeons or Skirmish fast, so they ignoring some mobs on the way and focus on bosses only.
2> some people style is not-community-lover only care for themself (and some of their friend in life who play together) so they simply ignore the chatbox, yea, those players are exist
3> as I comment on #2
4> well queue is random, there is always 2 options doing dungeons/skirmish: random queue or pre build team
5> I believe the role handle is incorrect, this is D&D style and some people try to ignore that or simply don't care, like I said in #1, but yes, some dungeons are far more hard than others (i'm 42, so far I pass Wolf's Den and Maddragon)
6> for option a, c, d I can say I anything much, just "reality is hard, not everyone is the same". as for b option, some people, mostly the one who never play MMO before or never dealt such a loot model thinks like this "need and greed is roll for get the item, greed is trying to roll harder than need, so I'm gonna do need so I wont look so greedy", I cant blame them, like I said, never done this before, but the community just kick them without any explanation so the life cycle goes of kicking and leaving goes on.
Thanks for this advice. I also wonder about this since I see a lot of LFG advertisement in zone chat (that I often have turned off due to Protector enclave spam), and I've been wondering why they're advertising instead of using the LFG tool.
1) I wonder if GWF has enough dps to bring down many self-healing, elite adds quickly.
4) I will try to do pre-build team now, so i can have better control, and hopefully this will solve #2 and 3, since at least I will know those people can read and write.
6) Actually I can agree to this, 8 years ago when I started WoW, I thought "need" sounds better than "Greed". So I didn't want to seem greedy, so I needed. But the reason why it's not an excuse because I know these people needed to ninja. Why? Because when we confront them, "Why are you rolling need if you can't wear it", they drop out of the party quickly, and screwed the rest of us. This happened 3 times to me already.
If not, I will not waste my time on this <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>.
As for the last boss, the game is poorly designed and tuned.
The first boss should have similar difficulty compare to the last one.
After a certain time in the dungeon, you cannot fill empty spots. If someone leaves (currently) you're 1 short, period.
hahahaha .... I agree, not all people is an excuse-able players, some are just some greedy f***. what I'm saying is just don't judge all players with the same reason
Well, first, right off the bat, don't feel too bad, those two you mention happen to be a couple of the hardest I've encountered in the game so far, and I'm nearly level 60. Mad Dragon - the green dragon was without a doubt the hardest boss up through about level 57. The black dragon skirmish in Skyhold is probably the second-hardest after the bridge skirmish in Hotenow (freakinginsnane) ...
Yes, add management has a lot to do with it. I find that as a GWF, I have started to take on the add management mostly myself, since my AE lets me cut down the little annoying mobs pretty quickly, and I can usually tag the tougher heroic adds long enough to get other players to notice they need to be taken down.
Two things: I absolutely do not have time to stop what I am doing and type anything during a battle. This game requires far more active movement and targeting, due to the nature of its mechanics, than your typical point-and-click-and-then-stand-there-clicking-for-five-minutes MMO. However, even more than that, the chat window is simply not my point of focus in light of what else is going on during a battle, so I simply don't see the tiny purple text gently pushing up the lines in the lower left corner of the screen. Not while I am frantically potting and running in and out of AE trying to catch adds.
I guess there's voice chat but it doesn't work? I've not had anyone using it, although it's enabled in my options.
It's been better for me lately, but yes, I have at times been dropped into groups with no GF, or no DC. It hasn't happened the past two weeks, though. However, there is about 5% chance that you get some bogus mix, like 3 GWF and no DC. Then one or two drop immediately and bam, group is done. Personally, I think this is the main reason groups fail - not having a GF, and definitely not having a DC. That spells doom - you can skate through them early on with whatever, but yeah, right around the 35-40 range things crank up and having the right group makeup is pretty much essential to winning.
Sort of related to above issue.
I'm not aware if the queue continues to search for another member when one is dropped or kicked, but I think not. It should, though - however that would be sort of annoying for the person joining, not knowing if they are going into a brand new instance or one that's on the verge of completion. Might be nice if the queue could say "You are about to join a group that is already in session, would you like to join, or keep waiting?" - but it would have to be based on some criteria, like a boss was already killed in the existing group, otherwise it might erroneously give that message to people when the group has been in existence for all of 5 minutes, you know?
I am a GWF and I will give my point of view since clearing adds is obviously my role. There are 2 problems as a GWF:
1) Lack of mobility-GWF might be a good add killer but you cant kill them while the cleric is kiting them around in circles. Not the clerics fault he gets all the aggro but still, the GWF is an AOE turret who cant kill mobile adds.
2) Lack of DPS-Yup you may see a GWF clearing out groups of mobs and he may come close to the top of the DPS list but against elite mobs the GWF abilities are weak sauce. The rogue is the only class with the DPS to burn them down fast enough or the CW who has a nice mix of DPS and control abilities. The GWF has neither of these advantages.
Anyway, I dont want to make it another GWF whine thread but thats my explination.
I think in the first 15 minutes, if a person drops, it gets replaced. On that note, I have seen this many times where 1 person does not get teleported into the instance. And then s/he had to drop out.
But after some time, especially towards the last boss, if one person drops out, it does not refill, and there is no way to get replacement as far as I know.
Completely agree 100% with #2. GWF are useless against elite mob adds, and rogue/CW must be assisting with this.
I think the entire problem lies with lack of planning and communication, group composition. Everyone is still in zerg, tank spank mindset.
I just don't understand the mentality of quitting after one wipe. That is usually what happens. We wipe once, start discussing a different strategy and someone just leaves. Doesn't say a word and they are gone. Weak. Do people really think they should NEVER die? Heck, in this game, dying is not that bad at all. So it costs you an injury kit. It doesn't even cost you that if you want to sit by the fire for a while.
It seems that the mentality is that if the group wipes then it is 'fail' and they should leave. Especially at the last boss. You are at the end, you only have to walk a few feet to attempt it again. No trash to clear, not that much time lost. What is wrong with a little challenge? "Oh, no...its getting hard, I can't take adversity, I quit"
Yes, I could attempt a guild or build a group in chat, but the queue is part of the reason I am playing. I like letting someone else do the group finding work for me.
I just got out of Idris and after one wipe, someone leaves. Then we attempt to 4 man it and it went ok, just needed to change our plan. But nope, someone says "can't do it" and they leave. Its over. And the dungeon chest was unlocked too. Pathetic.
Also what is up with that repair kit? To discourage wipe? more people 1 wipe and leave then.
Solo queuer should not get a debuff after wipe.
Does this company listen to what we say?
Not an option as people are getting 24 hour chat bans for LFG in Zone chat, for some reason people seem to think this is spam and when several people mark you for spam you get the ban. I personally do not use Zone chat for anything at all due to this very reason even though it's never happened to me I've seen it happen to too many people.
While this would be great advise in any other game I've ever played I would say that in this game it is not a good option.
Consider that a moment.
One level a day is at most playing 15 mins a day. That's not enough to learn the game mechanics.
Then don't spam 5 times in 15 seconds with caps?
Only spammers are being shut, there is no reason why 20 random people would ban you for lfg unless its really caps+spam or "afk pvp" spam.
It's not pathetic to quit a group. What is pathetic is a group that treats a 'team' member like a disposable piece of trash solo player tagging along with a party of 4. Like: 5 minutes, 15 potions, 25 ADDs later, the party is 800+ clicks away chatting about how bad the cleric sucks...
Not always, but more than enough to finally say enough is enough and just quit PUG'ging.
Could we have cleared the dungeon? Maybe
Would it be worth it for me to find out? Hell no
No I never said I know best, or appoint myself leader. All I merely wanted to do is to try a different strategy. If we wipe, let's try to do it this way. If it doesn't work, then let's do it this way.
You have to agree that helping to kill adds is a strategy worth trying, you don't have to be a leader to know that. I am trying to see if we can try it this way, but it was hard to communicate if they don't respond to any chat whatsoever.
I agree. Someone always leaves. I could attempt a guild group I agree, and I have done that before, but sometimes I log on at hours when no one is online, and I want to do dungeon. And since there is a LFG tool, I used it. As simple as that. It's not that I am not trying to form a guild group.
It's funny because at 36 you can no longer queue for it, so many times, my party ends up an array of 32, 32, 32, 33, 35. And since there is no way to know the range when queue no longer appears, I decided to give up and wait till I'm 36. And then it's gone.
If not, leave instance and retry.
Every time i did a succesfull dungeon it was because we communicated and we thought of strategy's to execute at the final boss, however if u have one fail-lord not into that mindset u wont beat it, since ure group is only as strong as its weakest link.
I play a cleric/gwf atm, and when i see things like "u have to keep ureself alive idiot" when i play cleric, i am out.
When i play my gwf and i see things like "u have to dps the boss ffs" i am out.
Clearly a lot of people dont take the R in RPG seriuesly, and in a mmo content that R becomes pretty important. I see dps CONTROL WIZARDS all the time, single target dps GWF etc totaly cluelles of there R in this game, i explain them everytime how we wil succeed if they adept and do there roll, when they agree usualy the group succeeds, when they are cluelles and dont, u wipe.
Yesterday i played idris temple with a wizard not using giga black hole, and i told him (me GWF) hiy dude could u swap to black hole and just drop ALL the adds on my ***. He agreed and we won that dungeon.
The run is very smooth until this Mad Dragon.
The elite adds can kill one of the players with a few hits.
I don't blame that player because he is only level 30.
We are all from level 30 to 32.
This may be part of the problem, also for my groups. The dungeon says it is 35. But then we queue, and end up with 30-34s. And at 36, you can no longer queue for it.
I think they need to clarify the range of when queues are possible.
LotMD is available at lvl 32-37, I thought I was way underpowered at 32.