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Shift dodging is broken in PVP
motionss
Member Posts: 0 Arc User
The shift dodging is broken right now in PVP. It needs to be changed/nerfed.
Dodging is a really spammable thing in PVP.Mages can use their teleport shift 4 times in a row in PVP! It is impossible to ever get any combo off or do any damage at all on these dodgers. Dodging is also bugged in the way that if you dodge after you get hit, you can still dodge the damage. It's weird.
This dodging also makes slows COMPLETELY useless for melee/fighter classes which is 3/5 of the available classes. Oh you slow me? I will just dodge 2-3-4 times in a row bye bye slow.
Slows are for many classes one of few ways to close the gap between an enemy and yourself while being able to damage the enemy. (shift dodging towards the enemy is little effective, because the enemy can shift dodge away easily and you cant damage him while dodging).
But now they are completely useless, since slows don't affect teleport-dodge distance!
Suggested changes:
Cut the amount of times you can dodge in PVP in half.
Or
Make you unable to dodge when slowed/dodge much closer by/make it cost more stamina
Fix the thing that you can avoid damage when dodging after you got hit
Make it so you can do some attack in the direction you are dodging towards so dodging towards enemies has some offensive purpose. This without giving defensive dodges an even bigger advantages by allowing them to attack while dodging away.
Peace
Dodging is a really spammable thing in PVP.Mages can use their teleport shift 4 times in a row in PVP! It is impossible to ever get any combo off or do any damage at all on these dodgers. Dodging is also bugged in the way that if you dodge after you get hit, you can still dodge the damage. It's weird.
This dodging also makes slows COMPLETELY useless for melee/fighter classes which is 3/5 of the available classes. Oh you slow me? I will just dodge 2-3-4 times in a row bye bye slow.
Slows are for many classes one of few ways to close the gap between an enemy and yourself while being able to damage the enemy. (shift dodging towards the enemy is little effective, because the enemy can shift dodge away easily and you cant damage him while dodging).
But now they are completely useless, since slows don't affect teleport-dodge distance!
Suggested changes:
Cut the amount of times you can dodge in PVP in half.
Or
Make you unable to dodge when slowed/dodge much closer by/make it cost more stamina
Fix the thing that you can avoid damage when dodging after you got hit
Make it so you can do some attack in the direction you are dodging towards so dodging towards enemies has some offensive purpose. This without giving defensive dodges an even bigger advantages by allowing them to attack while dodging away.
Peace
Post edited by motionss on
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there is a slight window that allows for late-dodges. this is to compensate for lag. perhaps it could be scaled back just a smidge but overall, i appreciate this functionality.
You're a rogue and you have trouble with wizards, i gather that.. Maybe it's not the game's fault... maybe you're just not as good at this game as you think you are...
Kind of hard when CW's get 4 dodges in <5 secs (which can also dodge after impact, as stated in the OP) vs 2 dodges rogues get in <5 secs + need to get in melee distance for most attacks. 1 Blink covers more ground than a rogue running in stealth mode so unless rogues have Deft strike then the CW can just blink and move back or even target the rogue in stealth mode (tis possible) to prevent getting hit.
If you're a good CW it shouldn't affect you much anyways when they fix those bugs that make CW's stronger than intended. Just learn how to play your class and you won't need to rely on them to get kills.
As a GF who likes to pvp at 60 in between some pve I for sure feel dodging is broken. I don't care the tiniest amount about the number of times anyone can dodge or the distances. However, dodges breaking my cc (which go on cooldown because it did in fact hit them a second or more before they dodged, I sometimes even see the animation of them on the ground before it flashes to them dodging away) and negating damage and effects from other skills is just unacceptable if this games fast pace of combat is supposed to be worth having.
There is another similar thread started about a week before this one http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?230112-Dodging-and-PvP
If this issue can't be fixed, as is stated in the other thread, then this will surely kill the time I will be interested in this game. You can feel it way too frequently throughout game play for it to go without extreme improvements. Also, given the fact I believe this will limit the time I can enjoy this game, it stands to reason that I should not invest more money in this game if it will never get passed a point of being annoying to play. The only thing that really has me playing now even is the hope that these type of problems will be resolved. I am not even through all the content yet and I just get sick of playing repeatedly because the game play is so frustrating. I can't bring myself to put in the time/money for the really time/money consuming end game gear and content while I can easily see myself quitting this game in a matter of months if this glitchy dodging isn't at least beginning to be addressed.
I haven't given up all hope just yet. Maybe some latency and connection improvements will be enough to leave the dodging glitches at least much more rare. We will see. I just want to give my feedback of how serious this particular issue is to me. I would very much like to see it specifically addressed if it is being looked at rather than having it clumped in with general statements about latency/connection/code improvements or whatever. I don't know code or networks to a professional degree (and I imagine many other gamers do not either) so I need it dumbed down what technical fixes are achieving what results to improve specific frequently reported issues (or at least what the fixes are intended to improve, I suppose what they actually improve often can't be seen until after they are applied and tested under the OBT circumstances). Maybe wanting that much detail is too idealistic, but I can certainly confirm that more of it would score Cryptic some serious additional customer relations favor with me.
You can NOT avoid damage by dodging after being hit. You are simply not taking latency into account. Your opponent has dodged before you hit him, it only seems like he dodged after you hit him, because of lag. You are simply out of synch with what's happening server side.
This can NOT be fixed!!! I play from Australia and I see this all the time. When my opponent has telegraphed an attack, by the time the information travels from his computer to the server then back to my PC and lands on my screen it's too late to react. I simply have to learn to predict what they are about to do before they do it. You need to time your stuns/snares more preemptively.
And Wizards can only teleport 3 times in a row. NOT 4! If they change this then Wizard will be FUBAR in PVE!
This is NOT going to change as the devs can NOT change the laws of physics just for you. Either learn to deal with it, like I have, or stop PVPing.
All you do is make threads crying about CWs. It's ridiculous especially coming from a TR. Also stop fabricating lies... CWs can only dodge 3 times in a row. Spend more time learning to play your class and less time crying on the forums when you get outplayed. You are playing the strongest PvP class in the game.
I have to admit, as a CW I agree with this. I can blink only 3 times in a row and have to walk it off for a bit before i can get my third. The smart TR's watch me and wait, what most of them do is throw knives as I dodge and waste my stamina then they close the gap and take me out pretty quick. And whats with all the cw dodge hate? It's not like we can do a hell of alot when we are blinking away from a TR. We dodge three moves in a row, wait for stamina refill and if the TR knows what they are doing will drop us before the next dodge is ready.
I'd say CW is better than TR in PvP though. CW is almost impossible to catch if he plays well.
I agree. its about timing.
Also, how would anyone not working for Cryptic know what else could or could not be altered to make for improved latency during certain events, such as the various shift button dodges? Or perhaps something could at least be done to keep powers from going on CD if they don't actually land due to latency. Or any number of other things game developers on a game development team could come up with to improve performance that I cannot myself as a layperson to the field of technology that isn't being paid to sit here and come up with more ideas.
Me thinks people who would bother using their time to state fixing or improving something is "impossible" without all the facts might possibly have something to gain from things remaining sub-optimal or broken. Whatever the case with people against even a suggestion of improving the problem, what is the harm in stating an issue in a forum for a game in CBT that brings attention to areas of the game that are functioning in less than desired ways? I am under the impression that in fact is one of the things we as CBTer's are supposed to be doing.
Edit: I almost forgot, if latency is this bad in 5v5's with no hope of improvement, what kind of nightmare is Gauntlgrym going to be with 20v20 and pve?
Here's the typical scenario for me (gwf) vs any cw with half a braincell.
Combat starts (usually from halfway across the map)
I'm immediately lifted or repelled
I'm forced to use my entire stamina bar to either run away or close the gap that has been created
During that time I am double ray of enfeebled
I get within melee range and try to force a dodge because I know that if I use a skill it will just be put on cooldown.
They dodge once.
I'm hit with whatever 3rd encounter they're using, usually some ice thing
I use takedown, it hits. How do I know it hits? It's put on cooldown. It has a 3s cooldown if it misses. There are two ticks of dmg from plague fire and possible tenebrous.
But wait! It's been dodged! No cc is applied, no damage is taken except the small ticks, but the skill is still put on full 10s cooldown.
By this time I'm usually around 1/4 hp, have only forced maybe 1-2 dodges, and 1-2 of my encounters are on full cooldown.
If I manage to hit with flourish sometime in there and it crits, maybe I've gotten the cw down to 3/4.
I can, of course, use my at wills! But like I said, this cw has at least half a braincell and spec'd into not only stamina gain on hit but chance to knock opponent back on hit (IN THE SAME PARAGON SKILL that procs WAY more often than 15%) So while I am hitting him occasionally, I am constantly getting pushed back just out of melee range while his skills are coming off cooldown and is constantly gaining more stamina to dodge and put mine on cooldown.
And, that is only if I'm not already dead by this point.
I once fought a cw that didn't do enough damage to kill me quick enough but had enough stamina to put ALL of my encounters on cooldown for 3-4 cycles. Somewhere between 9 and 12 dodges.
For anyone saying it's fine... You're clearly doing it wrong, because it is so easy to <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> in a melee's cheerios and ruin his day.
GF might have less of an issue with it because they have some excellent gap closing encounters. Same with TR and their stealth blink move. What do gwf have? Sprint... the most worthless thing in the game.
Coupled with Takedown's utterly pathetic range and slow animation, GWF isn't even worth bothering with in PvP.
Your issue isn't really about being a GWF, or even with dodge. Anytime a CW gets the jump on you in a 1v1, the odds are on their side. Unless you outgear them by quite a lot, or they're terrible, a fight that starts with 'force choke' is likely to end poorly for you. It doesn't matter if you're a GWF, a DC or even another CW. They're a ranged control class -- when they have the initiative, and you're at range, you're probably screwed.
I'd also add that dodge adds an interesting skill element to PvP. It's a timing-dependent active defense. It's fun when it works.