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7,951 Recovery, 23 Cha, 20 Int, and 56.1% Recharge (A bunch of numbers, not a build)
unspecifiederror
Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users Posts: 315 Bounty Hunter
I decided I wanted to test ridiculously high recharge rate on a cleric, so I did.
I made a Tiefling with 20 Int and 23 Cha at 60 and then stacked up 7,519 Recovery (7,951 with Rising Hope since it adds 15% of my power, not recovery)
My original thinking was that if I could get (let's say) 56.5% recharge rate increase then the 12 second base CD Sun Burst would have a CD of:
12 * (1 - 0.565) = 5.22 second CD (Sounds AWESOME!)
or how about the 20 second base CD on Astral Shield:
20 * (1 - 0.565) = 8.7 second CD (WOO!)
But NO. That's not what you get, not even close.
Even if you assume multiplicative instead of additive % recharge speed increases (even though character sheet suggests additive)
(using campfire buff for +1 int and +1 cha)
Sun Burst:
12 * (1 - .11 int) * (1 - .14 cha) * (1 - .315) = 6.29 seconds (Still Good)
Astral Shield:
20 * (1 - .11) * (1 - .14) * (1 - .315) = 10.5 seconds (Not as good, but still good)
Still not close to what you get...
Now for numbers:
Recovery = Recharge %
7,951 = 31.5% (with Rising Hope)
7,519 = 31.1%
7,076 = 30.7%
6,635 = 30.3%
6,308 = 29.9%
5,821 = 29.3%
4,874 = 27.7%
Use Lanlin's Document for below that, my numbers match more or less,
Here
Recharge Rate = SB CD/DL CD/FF CD/AS CD (Sun Burst/Daunting Light/Forgemaster's/Astral Shield
56.5% = 7.6/8.9/10.2/12.7 (campfire and Rising Hope)
56.1% = 7.6/8.9/10.2/12.8 (Campfire only)
54.5% = 7.7/9/10.3/12.9 (Rising Hope only)
53.7% = 7.8/9.1/10.4/13
52.9% = 7.8/9.1/10.4/13 (yes same as above)
50.7% = 7.9/9.2/10.6/13.2
49.6% = 8/9.3/10.6/13.3
47.7% = 8.1/9.4/10.8/13.5
45.5% = 8.2/9.6/10.9/13.7
43.1% = 8.3/9.7/11.1/13.9
41.2% = 8.4/9.9/11.3/14/1
38.1% = 8.6/10.1/11.5/14.4
34% = 8.9/10.4/11.9/14.9
29.1% = 9.2/10.8/12.3/15.4
26.4% = 9.4/11/12.6/15.8
23% = 9.7/11.3/13/16.2
......................................
2% = 11.7/13.7/15.6/19.6
Anyway, those are the numbers I acquired through my ridiculous waste of AD. I actually figured out around level 50 that there's was additional DR on the Recharge Rate on top of the DR from Recovery but I decided to go ahead and do it anyway. I'm not sure this has any significant value to theory crafting since we already knew recovery had hard DR but maybe it will save someone else experimenting with a High Int/Cha Tiefling because it's really not worth it.
I made a Tiefling with 20 Int and 23 Cha at 60 and then stacked up 7,519 Recovery (7,951 with Rising Hope since it adds 15% of my power, not recovery)
My original thinking was that if I could get (let's say) 56.5% recharge rate increase then the 12 second base CD Sun Burst would have a CD of:
12 * (1 - 0.565) = 5.22 second CD (Sounds AWESOME!)
or how about the 20 second base CD on Astral Shield:
20 * (1 - 0.565) = 8.7 second CD (WOO!)
But NO. That's not what you get, not even close.
Even if you assume multiplicative instead of additive % recharge speed increases (even though character sheet suggests additive)
(using campfire buff for +1 int and +1 cha)
Sun Burst:
12 * (1 - .11 int) * (1 - .14 cha) * (1 - .315) = 6.29 seconds (Still Good)
Astral Shield:
20 * (1 - .11) * (1 - .14) * (1 - .315) = 10.5 seconds (Not as good, but still good)
Still not close to what you get...
Now for numbers:
Recovery = Recharge %
7,951 = 31.5% (with Rising Hope)
7,519 = 31.1%
7,076 = 30.7%
6,635 = 30.3%
6,308 = 29.9%
5,821 = 29.3%
4,874 = 27.7%
Use Lanlin's Document for below that, my numbers match more or less,
Here
Recharge Rate = SB CD/DL CD/FF CD/AS CD (Sun Burst/Daunting Light/Forgemaster's/Astral Shield
56.5% = 7.6/8.9/10.2/12.7 (campfire and Rising Hope)
56.1% = 7.6/8.9/10.2/12.8 (Campfire only)
54.5% = 7.7/9/10.3/12.9 (Rising Hope only)
53.7% = 7.8/9.1/10.4/13
52.9% = 7.8/9.1/10.4/13 (yes same as above)
50.7% = 7.9/9.2/10.6/13.2
49.6% = 8/9.3/10.6/13.3
47.7% = 8.1/9.4/10.8/13.5
45.5% = 8.2/9.6/10.9/13.7
43.1% = 8.3/9.7/11.1/13.9
41.2% = 8.4/9.9/11.3/14/1
38.1% = 8.6/10.1/11.5/14.4
34% = 8.9/10.4/11.9/14.9
29.1% = 9.2/10.8/12.3/15.4
26.4% = 9.4/11/12.6/15.8
23% = 9.7/11.3/13/16.2
......................................
2% = 11.7/13.7/15.6/19.6
Anyway, those are the numbers I acquired through my ridiculous waste of AD. I actually figured out around level 50 that there's was additional DR on the Recharge Rate on top of the DR from Recovery but I decided to go ahead and do it anyway. I'm not sure this has any significant value to theory crafting since we already knew recovery had hard DR but maybe it will save someone else experimenting with a High Int/Cha Tiefling because it's really not worth it.
Post edited by unspecifiederror on
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Appreciate you testing it all out though, seriously.
As far as I can see the only abilities that really need recovery to start with are Astral Shield and Hallowed Ground/Daily. The other abilities might be nice to have faster but the benefit of their speed is secondary to AS and Action Point generation.
I think the important question that remains is, is it better to get to the point of 100% uptime on AS and/or HG via recovery or via CHA. Since if the cost of recovery:CHA ratio is more expensive than power:WIS or crit:STR, naturally top gear stuff you'll get a fair amount of all these stats anyway...
CD (post recovery) = CD / (1 + Recharge Rate)
The results look like this (Assuming a 10 second CD for ease of understanding):
Recovery -> CD
0% = 10
5% = 9.5
10% = 9.1
15% = 8.7
20% = 8.3
25% = 8.0
30% = 7.7
35% = 7.4
40% = 7.1
45% = 6.9
50% = 6.7
55% = 6.5
60% = 6.3
65% = 6.1
70% = 5.9
75% = 5.7
80% = 5.6
85% = 5.4
90% = 5.3
95% = 5.1
100% = 5.0
The advantage for them to do it this way is that it is quite literally impossible for a player to bring CDs to 0.
Hope this helps.
based off a few bits of calculations from the figures that unspecifiederror provided it is looking fairly like that this is the case
Yes I did, and it got a GS of 10.5k 1 minute after hitting 60. Which really just further shows GS means squat since the build would fail horribly in a T2.
AP gain was 31.5% + 14% + 15% = 60.5% with Rising Hope, Campfire buff, and Holy Fervor.
My main cleric has 54.1% with the same stuff and only 3,671 Recovery (with Rising Hope) and 21 Charisma (with Campfire).
My original goal was, as Deistik said, to get overlapping up-time on Divine Armor and Hallowed Ground. You can't accomplish this with +AP gain only though.
Assuming LanLin's numbers are right, Sun Burst generates 5% Ap per target hit, so caps at 25% normally. With 60.5% AP gain that would be:
25 x 1.605 = 40% AP per cast
Casting SB every 5.22 seconds (my assumed number) would give:
15 / 5.22 = 2.87 * 40 = 114.8% AP per 15 seconds from Sun Burst alone
My thought was if I can maintain Hallowed Ground off nothing but Sun Burst then I could fuel Divine Armor off everything else, more or less.
Unfortunately, because of the higher than expected CDs it just doesn't work out to be possible to maintain HG and DA at the same time like I was hoping. Basically the attempted build is garbage and should never be used by anyone. I only had 3k power, 2k crit, 1k defense, and nothing else because I had to sacrifice everything to get recovery that high.
That formula seems to match up with the numbers I've got.
It still seems kind of stupid considering the DR on Recovery and cap on Cha/Int basically prevents you from EVER getting close to 100% CD as it is. Doubling down on DR like that just sucks.
Most people think the question is: If that were the case, then the answer would be the intuitive 50% cuts the CD in half.
However the "real question" is: In this case the formula I presented (and I suspect Neverwinter uses) is the correct one. That is, a 100% recovery allows double (i.e., 100% more) the number of spells to be cast in the same time span.
This is true.
Though the question I asked was:
Can I get my CDs low enough to spam HG and DA with near 100% up-time on both?
The answer was, sadly, no.
I'm just done lvling my cha/int tiefling and now I read this. I guess its still possible to make my toon work as long as I go for crit+power.
Since all intelligence does is pretty much what recovery does I expect you can say that 10 points in intelligence = x points in recovery.
The problem is that recovery past 2300 or smth suffers from diminishing returns so the answer to my question will differ depending on the value of recharge rate I am trying to accomplish.
My goal is 14 sec cd on astral shield since duration is 15 sec and it sucks when you get knocked back or disabled when you are about to refresh astral shield. So 1 sec grace period would be nice.
So how much extra recovery do I need if I skip on 10 point of intelligence?
Thanks also for your videos, helped me save a lot of testing time and AD.
Good thing I found you on Google, can't stress how much you helped me out understanding mechanics, what the powers and feats actually do.
Cheers!
Dragon Guild
You can however, have 100% uptime on one, going full on recovery and completely ignoring everything else is just bad. I've been meaning to ask, on a typical 15 sec AS cd build, can they maintain 100% uptime just on HG? I'm curious, since you're the goal of this test is to see if you can get 100% on both DA/HG.