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A solution to add a little more balance to PVP: Disabling Mounts in PVP.
todesfaelle
Member Posts: 1,370 Arc User
I'm not sure how many of you guys will agree with me on this one, but I've been seeing some threads lately that expresses how paid mounts can easily change the tide of a game, leading to conflicts about the true balance between paying and non-paying players, if ever there is one in PVP. I know and believe that this game is a free to play game and I'm not particularly against the paying players in using the mounts they rightfully earned using their money.
However I thought of a solution that may be able to fix this issue, and please correct me if by any chance someone else thought of this beforehand.
Although it doesn't seem much, I believe disabling the use of mounts in a PVP match will allow all players to fight on more even grounds. The incredulous difference between the paid 110% movement mounts and the usual 50% movement mounts we usually see can create quite a huge gap in how quickly a player can escape or capture towers. And although I think that the players who paid for their fast mounts are entitled to use them freely, I also believe that PVP should be a place where paid content should not affect a free-to-play content. Players will also begin to value certain utility stats such as movement speed when everyone is standing at equal grounds in terms of starting speed.
What do you think? Please feel free to discuss how this will impact PVP and if it will be a viable solution for the arguments regarding mounts.
If possible, it would also be wonderful if people could stick with the topic of mount balancing instead of side-tracking to other PVP balance issues such as class balances. Thank you so much! I'm looking forward to reading your replies.
However I thought of a solution that may be able to fix this issue, and please correct me if by any chance someone else thought of this beforehand.
Although it doesn't seem much, I believe disabling the use of mounts in a PVP match will allow all players to fight on more even grounds. The incredulous difference between the paid 110% movement mounts and the usual 50% movement mounts we usually see can create quite a huge gap in how quickly a player can escape or capture towers. And although I think that the players who paid for their fast mounts are entitled to use them freely, I also believe that PVP should be a place where paid content should not affect a free-to-play content. Players will also begin to value certain utility stats such as movement speed when everyone is standing at equal grounds in terms of starting speed.
What do you think? Please feel free to discuss how this will impact PVP and if it will be a viable solution for the arguments regarding mounts.
If possible, it would also be wonderful if people could stick with the topic of mount balancing instead of side-tracking to other PVP balance issues such as class balances. Thank you so much! I'm looking forward to reading your replies.
Post edited by Unknown User on
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Not a founder, have basic mount, Although am relatively well geared XD. if its that big of a deal, dont pvp till u buy your mount. Also, with a greaterplague u can knock someone off there mount with one hit generally. Not a big deal.
Also, mounts dont make u win your 1v1s or taem fights.
I played PVP today, i play it a bit everyday since it is highly entertaining (if u end up in a 5vs5 game that is) however let me tell u the next experience i had....
I was playing my GWF i had 40%hp and was half a screen away from a TR on my way to the potion so just imagine i am 50% away from the potion, he was 100% compared to me in distance from this potion. I sprint to the potion to grab it, in the mean time he summoned his spider, and just FLEW past me (in my sprint mode) so tell me, how am i supose to compete with that? That isent even including the distance gain on waypoint u get with mounts....
In a pvp setting everybody should be on equal speed, with the exception for "dodge skills" having 120% increased movement speed is a joke in a 5vs5 fight where the 5 guys playing are a team all geared up with mounts, and the other team are casual fun players without mounts (not making fun of HC vs Casuals here just stating the obviues...)
Mount difference isn't actually that big of a problem, what is a problem is that you can cast it rather quickly behind a pillar or such and just run off from a lot of classes.
I get its a free-to-play game, but the company has to make money for this game to even function. Please, don't act like supporting this game and getting a mount is too much to ask if you actually want to play it.
LOL, so what you're saying is.
If mounts can't be used to gain a huge advantage over people, Cryptic will go out of business.
Bravo.
Good point. I agree that mounts are able to contribute to revenue, but it's as if you're saying mounts are the only thing that makes the company run. I beg to differ, however. I'm pretty sure people aren't buying mounts just to use them for PVP. Mounts have many other uses that makes the game convenient other than PVP. But the disparity in balance between those who are able to whip out these mounts and those who can't tend to make a rather large difference in PVP matches. People with faster mounts tend to get the upper hand when it comes to invading towers. And I know that mounts do not make a person win his 1 vs 1 matches, but more often than not, the immense speed these mounts have tend to contribute a good sum of points reduced from the opposing team (due to stepping on the opposing team's undefended tower), and faster means of travel from point to point.
In my opinion the speed in which a person can get to point to point matters a lot in a match. And I'm sure some of you can agree with me on this one. Everyone rides on horseback to be able to get to the desired point much faster in PVP, because all of us know that the faster one to get to a certain point has the advantage in terms of position.
Cryptic is providing something that other PVP inclusive games offering fair and balanced play, do not offer. PVP content. You. The Freebs are the mobs of PVP. If everyone ran on skill alone some free playing twelve tear old twitch-gamer with twenty fingers and the reflexes of a mongoose on crack might make a paying customer look like a fool. And then he might not pay anymore. Why buy the goods if all you need is practice?
So it really behooves them to have a paying aristocracy and a set of second class players who just serve to make the pay-fors feel better about their purchases.
But of course you COULD just grind your way into whatever you want. Heck I could take my level 25 character into a level 12 zone and kill orcs for about 27 hours to get enough lion tokens to get a single thing from the crest vendor. OR I could just buy something better and start laying about with it right away.
Convenience? I would agree if my purchase didn’t affect anyone else’s game negatively. But of course it does. We are talking about PVP here. By the time I have enough free resources to get the same equipment that was needed when I started, new equipment will be out, the curve will have shifted and I will be behind again.
The system is designed to make certain Helots don’t become Spartans. Unless they pay for the privilege, of course.
None of this absolves some one from skill however. To be truly good at PVP you have to know what you are doing, you have to practice and learn what to do and when to do it. What the amenities like horses and super gear provide is a bit of a buffer. With them you don’t have to be quite as good, you don’t have to work quite as hard.
You free players can still own in PVP even without the purchases and goodies, you just have to work harder. You have to grind longer, trainer better and pay more attention.
So anytime someone tells you that you are not supporting the game Freeb. Just remind them of how much harder PVP would be without you.
I know there was a discussion about this on the General Forums but those move so quickly and its not really the place to talk about pvp mostly because you get the "this is why I don't want pvp in my dnd game" arguments which don't add anything to the reality of the game we play or the discussion at hand.
I believe that mounts need to change. Currently people with an epic mount have 2 main advantages. First they can get from 2 different points of the map faster than people w/out an epic mount. Second they are much harder to knock off the mount.
The first advantage plays heavily into the gametype that we play on namely domination. Moving from point to point to attack or defend is practically the name of the game. Having extra speed obviously helps quite a bit. Additionally reinforcements through respawns come in faster with the faster mounts.
The second advantage gives people flexibility. A regular 50% mount takes 5 hits to knock someone off of it. Giving a fairly sizable knockdown cc at the same time. Most classes have the tools to take someone down while the rider runs past through dots and fast ranged hits. The higher tier mounts take much more to the point that the only reliable way to take someone off an epic mount is a hard cc. This limits the classes that can knock these riders off to ones that can reliably provide a hard cc from range namely the CW. The rest of the time an epic mount rider can blithely run through the enemy team. Additionally this can be used to draw a hard cc that could have been used at a much more opportune time but was used just to keep a spider rider from capping a back point.
I believe in our current map and gameplay setup mounts should not be allowed at all. This slows down the gameplay and puts a much higher emphasis on positioning and proper movement. This also favors certain classes. DC and GF are very strong in pvp due to their ability to hold a point against all odds. Their biggest weakness is mobility. They are a brick wall. Having mounts in pvp basically nullifies this weakness. In playing my GWF I've found his mobility to be great in the 10-20 bracket. Go in do some damage and the pop determination and draw people to him as he sprints for a side point. Having mountless pvp brings parity to the playing field as well as keeping open out of the box style thinking and strategies. It may be worthwhile to spec a rogue for mobility, stealth, and speed because they can get where they are needed faster. Currently with mounts there is no real point to doing so. Just spec to do as much damage as fast as possible and the jump on your 110% mount to do it again.
If at some point the maps open up to where the battlefields are much larger normalize all mounts to the basic speed and durability namely 50% and 5 hits for a knockdown for these larger maps. This allows the extra speed to get around where you want but doesn't let you ride through a team with no regard to incoming attacks.
TL/DR: Allowing epic mounts vs normal mounts gives a large advantage in our gametype. No mounts at all allows for teamwork, positioning, and mobility rather than pure damage specs.
Then here I come on my 110% spider, bull charge you down and then stomp on your dead corpse.
Ahhhh, tears, tears, they are so sweet.
Especially TR tears hahaha
+1 this, Mounts in PVP are fine.
Lets go with the example above about running for the potion with mounts and w/out mounts.
With mounts: Rogue mounts up. I mount up. My mount is faster, I get to the potion, I win the fight.
Without mounts: Rogue and I are dueling. Rogue feels that he needs a boost from the potion to survive because I'm kicking his butt. So he heads towards the potion. I recognize this and blink in and cast a CC to stop him. He anticipates the CC and rolls in time to stop the cast. I have a plan though I blink one more time and slow him down. Now we race towards the potion and I use my last blink to grab it just before he does.
This is a small example of the gameplay and strategy that gets cut out because of mounts in pvp. Which scenario seems more exciting to play out? As I mentioned before if you normalize movement by giving every class mounts you marginalize the movement advantages that some classes could have. You marginalize the possible roles and positioning strategies that would be available. You also entice people to just spec for full out burst damage rather than choosing utility feats or skills that would give them a mobility advantage.
It's you.
The pvp imbalance is straight up a couple of classes having spec issues and those same classes players frequently use hakcs/exploits. I know this, because both classes I can either fight and have a chance, or immediately Id them as a hacks/exploiter, because they - one shot kill, do not take damage, dodge all the time, etc etc. Matter of fact once I start a Pvp and I i d them, I announce it in teamspeak/chat so everyone knows to focus fire.
I have been doing this since DAOC Alpha test... funny... how ever single major game has had issues with stealth and cast toons (what the haxors like).
I wasn't complaining about the mounting up scenario I was just giving an example of how a pvp combat system without mounts is more exciting than one with. How the different classes can emphasize their strengths and weaknesses through more than just how much damage/cc you do. Additionally its not exactly difficult to break los and mount up.
Please don't assume that everyone that posts suggestions are incensed or in the vernacular "butthurt" about how things are. I enjoy pvp as it is. I just see a way that I think it could be improved and am expressing these ideas.
I wasnt sure how knocking people off mounts works. I do know if you read the descriptions it mentions something about being harder to be knocked off the better quality mounts. I also have noticed on my CW that most people on 50% mounts get knocked down with a round of Magic Missiles so basically 5 hits. Whereas I've seen people on higher tier mounts take 15 shots and not fall. I had presumed that this was due to the mount quality but I may be incorrect.
http://www.loremaster.org
Aye, there's no need to be so hostile.
I'm eager to farm for Zen and I'm still on the process of doing it. I love this game, after all. And I see myself playing it for quite a long time since most of my net friends are playing it with me. We've been having a good experience so far. And hopefully I don't meet you in PVP.
I'm glad to see someone notices the very same things.