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To those leveling up a GF
thugmar
Member Posts: 8 Arc User
I strong recommend you reroll if you want anything remotely like a traditional "Tank" experience.
This game simply does not provide that at any point after hitting T2 dungeons. The simple fact that you can be done with T1 dungeons inside of a day of hitting level 60 makes it such a short blip on the radar that you can not really enjoy the game this way. And to be fair, many groups do not even work well enough to allow your average player to tank on a guardian in T1, you really do need to work at it to even make that function some what.
Leveling up, you serve a purpose, in T1, you kind of serve a purpose, by T2 you are a weak DPS slot (Yeah Yeah your DPS number on the "meters" will crush most other people, but that's a terrible indicator when well played groups can just fling things over the edge, and your dps numbers only reflect great dps in aoe pulls, on bosses your TR should make you cry from crushing your ego.... or get a new TR).
Also please note that the only valid spec for GF atm is the Conq. spec. And that makes you a plate DPS, not a tank in any traditional sense of the word.
Agree or do not if you have a GF, I just wish some one had made this post for me before I bothered to hit level 60.
As an aside, we are a ton of fun in pvp all the way up and absolutely serve a solid role, so that is something positive.
Personally I rerolled a cleric now that my GF is fully geared in T1 (with a sprinkling of T2s from groups willing to let me in) but plan to boycott spending any more of my $ on this game until they do something about the complete lack of usefulness of the class.
This game simply does not provide that at any point after hitting T2 dungeons. The simple fact that you can be done with T1 dungeons inside of a day of hitting level 60 makes it such a short blip on the radar that you can not really enjoy the game this way. And to be fair, many groups do not even work well enough to allow your average player to tank on a guardian in T1, you really do need to work at it to even make that function some what.
Leveling up, you serve a purpose, in T1, you kind of serve a purpose, by T2 you are a weak DPS slot (Yeah Yeah your DPS number on the "meters" will crush most other people, but that's a terrible indicator when well played groups can just fling things over the edge, and your dps numbers only reflect great dps in aoe pulls, on bosses your TR should make you cry from crushing your ego.... or get a new TR).
Also please note that the only valid spec for GF atm is the Conq. spec. And that makes you a plate DPS, not a tank in any traditional sense of the word.
Agree or do not if you have a GF, I just wish some one had made this post for me before I bothered to hit level 60.
As an aside, we are a ton of fun in pvp all the way up and absolutely serve a solid role, so that is something positive.
Personally I rerolled a cleric now that my GF is fully geared in T1 (with a sprinkling of T2s from groups willing to let me in) but plan to boycott spending any more of my $ on this game until they do something about the complete lack of usefulness of the class.
Post edited by thugmar on
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to elaborate:
GWF is good at killing mass of adds... BUT... most dungeon have trash or bosses in areas where a CW can push them down from cliff/pit and insta kill them... so your aoe dps became non essential since that way is much faster (note that in t2 dung most adds are elite so u will not one shot them... while u can one shot them with a push...)
GF aggro is a bit tricky... but u can have it to work with the right spec and way to play (still there are quite a lot of feat that simply don't work and could make other build more performing and able to cover their role if fixed)... BUT again most fight revolve around masses of add... that u can't control due to the limit of target that your aoe can hit (5 for aoe taunt 3 for aoe KD) and once again CW can dispose of them with easy in most boss fight... (so there is no need to hold their aggro in most fight)
GF again... u have no problem of taking and holding the aggro of a boss... BUT the way boss attacks work there is little to no need to actually tank them... their autoattack deal moderate dmg (that can almost be overlooked with the help of clerics astral shield... even one is enough u don't need dual shield for bosses autoattacks...) and charged attacks are slow enough that u can simply walk out of them (don't even need to spend your dodge/block/sprint on them... just walking away is enough)... this mean that one or two good dps (usually TR) can hold the attention of the boss and kill him while CW take care of adds and cleric pump out the needed heal and shield...
can u do the same dungeon with a regular party that have both GWF and GF? YES... i clear t2 with my guild party with a 1x setup... but doing it with a different party composition is much more easy and fast... why waste time killing adds when u can push them to death? why have a moderate dps tank (even if full specced for dps there is no way a GF can finght on equal ground with a TR dps ^^' ) attack the boss when u can have an additional dps do the same and killing him faster?
this is the main problem with those 2 classes... the thigs that they do best (killing adds and holding aggro of bosses)... are not needed...
can this be solved? yes and in a quite stright way... by revising dungeons inc to have SOME elite immune to CC (so that CW will take care of the mass of trash mob while GWF kill the few immune) and by reworking the boss dmg and moving it from his special ability to his spammable attacks so that rogue TR can't just withstand them and simply avoiding charged attacks... and u will need a more defensive GF to take those hit while the TR do his job of dealing dmg to the boss... this way EVERY class will be needed... (u wil still nedd a CW to take care of the mass of adds... and still need a TR to take down the boss in a resonable amount of time... obviously DC utility will not be hindered at all... altrough they could use some tuning on the amount of aggro they generate... that is quite impressive...)
unfortunately this require that cryptic put their dev to work on this... and we have yet to hear them aknowledge this problem...
there are tons of threads on official forum, many post on their FB. both with the same message - wtf is with fighters?
and the only reply so far was in the vidoe interview "gwf is on par with others it only dont FEELS good"
wtf is this for answer
What is wrong with Neverwinter Guardian Fighter? I selected this class because it is similar as Paladin and to complete my Role play experience I selected paladin-y diety and origin. But, as a tank I am fail.
I don't think that I will continue this game in this state. I have been a fan of Forgotten Realms and nearly peed myself at the thought of "Baldurs Gate... ONLINE!!" - but this is very disappointing that basic mechanics that are expected fail. Either make Guardian Fighter into a real tank class or remove the idea from the game entirely and make GF a hybrid of some sort that makes sense.
Not even a month after release and people have chewed up all the content already. We probably won't get fixed or at least partially until Gauntlgrym is released.
Wrong, atleast I have had instant queues through the LFG tool while playing GF. Done dungeons up to epic idris now but so far, had no problems except occasionally got a group without a healer.
GF has it own things to be fixed, but it is still quite fun to play with. Just dodge the enemy attacks instead of blocking and you are good to go.
Beating a dead horse? It's obviously not a dead horse if people are still trying to enjoy GF and are unable to. The game is in open Beta and while that means it hasn't officially released yet, it's still open for play and comment. Open Beta is like an RFC in the tech world - someone puts forth a concept and then takes comments from the world at large to improve the experience. That's what is happening here. People who play the GF class and would like to fill the role as a proper tank are commenting on our experiences as tanks in other places to give the developers an idea of what we are looking for. Don't try to pretend balance might "break" if they fix GF as a tank because as it stands right now, balance is completely broken. Clerics are tanking instead of GF and unless that's intended, we are going to see serious issues when hard end game content comes out and they just can't take the hits.
I'm sorry that you don't believe in the development process, but that's not really my problem. If the forums sicken you, then stop coming to them. It's that simple.
You should actually be encouraging us to help the devs to make the game better. What are you going to do when harder end game content releases and all the tanks have left because GF is completely broken? Rely on your clerics who are going to be struggling to keep themselves and the party alive?
No, this isn't a "dead horse". A dead horse is a topic that has already been put to rest and keeps being brought up. GF is advertised as a tank class, it has tank-y abilities, and needs to function as a proper tank. Once that is true, the topic will then be put to rest.
Originally I thought things like class balance would be tweaked relatively quickly as Cryptic monitored what was happening, but now I see how many problems are in the game: huge exploits, broken skills / traits / etc, broken companions, broken matchmaking, broken game design, and more. There's a playable game buried in there, and GFs and GWFs are definitely playable in some scenarios. However class function and balance is probably nowhere near the top of the list of things to fix right now.
So, people will keep showing up in the forums scratching their heads and asking if things are really as broken as they seem. Hopefully when a few fires are put out, Cryptic can get some people in here to talk about direction for GFs and GWFs.
This system seems to be largely based on 4e D&D, in that system the tanks job is to soak damage from the largest threat to the group. In a normal encounter it would be rare for all the enemies to be attacking only the tank, infact having all enemies attacking only the tank would likely result in the tanks death.
That being said the GF should have great single target threat and okay secondary threat. Currently it feels like the GF has nowhere near that threat single or multi-target. In 4e the targets become marked and take a penalty attacking anyone who is not the marking tank. I have no clue why they didn't use a similar mechanic.
a lot of people don't get this. my GF is only level 40, but I figured this out early on, and have since devoted my GF to this purpose.
As another disillusioned GF, I say:
Unfortunately the logic of that statement doesn't hold.
People are completing the content faster and easier very specifically without bringing GFs.