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Forums > Home› Neverwinter Discussion › General Discussion (PC)

What happened this time anyway?

drzeyusdrzeyus Banned Users Posts: 87
edited May 2013 in General Discussion (PC)
So whats this expliot number 3?

What was the expliot anyway this time. I still dont know what the other ones were except the boss one

Have they even fixed the other expliots? And if not they what the **** are they doing? Why havnt they been fixed... The boss one should of been the easiest to fix....

Program code
.... If boss = dead then no respawn... There i fixed that issue


Man this sucks.
Post edited by drzeyus on

Comments

  • fotzikfotzik Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    It's actually exploit number #7 I think, you missed a couple, hard to do since the game is full with exploits (I probably missed a couple). No most boss exploits are still in effect, this time they managed to create AD from the AH and destroyed the ZEN + AD economy in the game.
  • eycezeycez Member Posts: 27 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    Its actually exploit # 9001
  • ogariousogarious Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 740 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    I think he kinda oversimplifies it. So let me expand a bit. They found a way, in the closed part of beta for STO mind you, to post stuff to sell in the market for - AD amount. Which means you buy it and get AD plus the item, and the person who posts it loses 1 AD. So essentually they are selling stuff at the max amount you can in negative AD. Then switching to another account and buying it. Getting the AD and then switching all that AD over to zen.

    Then they can use that to buy rare/unique gear and switch it over to other accounts, where it cant be traced and they cant be banned. Therefor when the ban stick goes around IF it goes around. They get away scott free because all their gains is 2 or 3 accounts away where it cant be traced. I think that's it in a nutshell.

    Now they promised no end of beta wipe. So now if they wipe they are going to take a major beating for this. If they dont wipe they are going to take a major beating for this. People are going to quit either way. But one of the two ways to go allows the cheaters to keep their gains in the long run.

    That's it in a nutshell, as I understand it.
  • drzeyusdrzeyus Banned Users Posts: 87
    edited May 2013
    This just show us how this game was never really tested well at all. The boss exploits at least should of been caught in alpha testing. The other ones probly should of to.

    Could someone list all the exploits. Lets make a list of them.
  • fotzikfotzik Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    ogarious wrote: »
    I think he kinda oversimplifies it. So let me expand a bit. They found a way, in the closed part of beta for STO mind you, to post stuff to sell in the market for - AD amount. Which means you buy it and get AD plus the item, and the person who posts it loses 1 AD. So essentually they are selling stuff at the max amount you can in negative AD. Then switching to another account and buying it. Getting the AD and then switching all that AD over to zen.

    Then they can use that to buy rare/unique gear and switch it over to other accounts, where it cant be traced and they cant be banned. Therefor when the ban stick goes around IF it goes around. They get away scott free because all their gains is 2 or 3 accounts away where it cant be traced. I think that's it in a nutshell.

    Now they promised no end of beta wipe. So now if they wipe they are going to take a major beating for this. If they dont wipe they are going to take a major beating for this. People are going to quit either way. But one of the two ways to go allows the cheaters to keep their gains in the long run.

    That's it in a nutshell, as I understand it.

    yeah of course I did, it's against the rules to explain exploits in detail.
  • drzeyusdrzeyus Banned Users Posts: 87
    edited May 2013
    ogarious wrote: »
    I.......................................................................................

    That's it in a nutshell, as I understand it.


    REALLY COME ON THATS A ****ING JOKE. Seriously you could do that .... WHAT a HAMSTER joke.... FIRE THE IDIOTS THAT CODED THIS GAME...
  • nahleianahleia Member Posts: 5 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    ogarious wrote: »
    I think he kinda oversimplifies it. So let me expand a bit. They found a way, in the closed part of beta for STO mind you, to post stuff to sell in the market for - AD amount. Which means you buy it and get AD plus the item, and the person who posts it loses 1 AD. So essentually they are selling stuff at the max amount you can in negative AD. Then switching to another account and buying it. Getting the AD and then switching all that AD over to zen.

    Then they can use that to buy rare/unique gear and switch it over to other accounts, where it cant be traced and they cant be banned. Therefor when the ban stick goes around IF it goes around. They get away scott free because all their gains is 2 or 3 accounts away where it cant be traced. I think that's it in a nutshell.

    Now they promised no end of beta wipe. So now if they wipe they are going to take a major beating for this. If they dont wipe they are going to take a major beating for this. People are going to quit either way. But one of the two ways to go allows the cheaters to keep their gains in the long run.

    That's it in a nutshell, as I understand it.

    That is not entirely accurate. You had better believe that they can find out where you sent stuff from one account to another. Game servers do keep transaction logs of everything you characters does in game, at least financial wise. Otherwise, if you lost an item, and made a ticket over it, they could not verify if you had the item or not. PWE/Cryptic are very well aware of who did the exploiting and just what all transactions those people had made. If the exploiters moved items off the mule accounts to other places, then PWE/Cryptic will know who, what and where.
    "Whereas most other Captains tend to run from the Borg, screaming like frightened little schoolgirls; I tend to run at the Borg because I know that while their ships may be bigger,the guns on the Seraphim fire faster."
    Vice Admiral Tamamora Sadase, Commanding U.S.S. Seraphim, Defiant Class Retrofit Escort
    Fleet Commander - Caspian Rising
  • niggb1niggb1 Member Posts: 1 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    nahleia wrote: »
    That is not entirely accurate. You had better believe that they can find out where you sent stuff from one account to another. Game servers do keep transaction logs of everything you characters does in game, at least financial wise. Otherwise, if you lost an item, and made a ticket over it, they could not verify if you had the item or not. PWE/Cryptic are very well aware of who did the exploiting and just what all transactions those people had made. If the exploiters moved items off the mule accounts to other places, then PWE/Cryptic will know who, what and where.


    No one f#cks with the jesus!!!!!!
  • soldacksoldack Member Posts: 31
    edited May 2013
    nahleia wrote: »
    That is not entirely accurate. You had better believe that they can find out where you sent stuff from one account to another. Game servers do keep transaction logs of everything you characters does in game, at least financial wise. Otherwise, if you lost an item, and made a ticket over it, they could not verify if you had the item or not. PWE/Cryptic are very well aware of who did the exploiting and just what all transactions those people had made. If the exploiters moved items off the mule accounts to other places, then PWE/Cryptic will know who, what and where.

    But wait, a lot of ill gotten merchandise and zen was used in transactions with HONEST players who were not in on the scam, so are you banning EVERY person who transacted with one fo the thousands of exploiters?
  • kife1100kife1100 Member, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 16 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    If I had to guess, Cryptic is most likely fixing a lot of these exploits people have been banned for in the last week.
  • malcanthettmalcanthett Member Posts: 3 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    People have to remember that there is a reason that this game is currently in Beta and we are Beta-testing it effectively. These finds are used by the devs to fix this stuff so when it goes to the official release it will be fixed and taken care of.
  • cocksworthcocksworth Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    Their out of game service (the gateway), which is a website which you can use to trade in-game items & check up on your character, had a huge oversight in the code. People who put in a negative bid on an item (via that gateway) got that much AD put on their character instantly, and could do so as many times as they liked. So people were literally creating money out of thin air.

    Furthermore, people who put negative bids on items people were actually trying to auction, could actually win the item AND get free money, while the person who posted the item gets a full 1 AD for their troubles. They are patching up the exploit as we speak.

    However, this has already affected the entirety of all 3 servers. The market is completely torpedoed atm. Everything of value was bought up instantly or stolen, There IS no zen on the market anymore because players have bought it all up. It's also impossible to tell how long this exploit has been going on. The gateway's been operational since the start of Open Beta. Most of this conjured AD has already permiated the market, been given away to innocent people / traded, etc.
  • nahleianahleia Member Posts: 5 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    soldack wrote: »
    But wait, a lot of ill gotten merchandise and zen was used in transactions with HONEST players who were not in on the scam, so are you banning EVERY person who transacted with one fo the thousands of exploiters?

    Nope, because they alsop have one other resource available. They also keep tabs of IP addresses of the accounts that are logged in. They can always double-check login records and online activity against each other. If an exploiter sent something to a mule, and then logged off and logged back on with the mule account, it would have the same IP. Now if the mule account or original account gave something to someone else, with a different IP, then you could guess that the new IP showing up might be innocent. It really matters as to what PWE/Cryptic do, and how far they are willing to investigate. But for the most part, you cannot hide anything on a game server. It records everything, which is what my post meant to say in the first place, if you read it.
    "Whereas most other Captains tend to run from the Borg, screaming like frightened little schoolgirls; I tend to run at the Borg because I know that while their ships may be bigger,the guns on the Seraphim fire faster."
    Vice Admiral Tamamora Sadase, Commanding U.S.S. Seraphim, Defiant Class Retrofit Escort
    Fleet Commander - Caspian Rising
  • cocksworthcocksworth Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    nahleia wrote: »
    Nope, because they alsop have one other resource available. They also kleep tabs of IP addresses of the accounts that are logged in. They can always double-check login records and online activity against each other. If an exploiter sent something to a mule, and then logged off and logged back on with the mule account, it would have the same IP. Now if the mule account or original account gave something to someone else, with a different IP, then you could guess that the new IP showing up might be innocent. It really matters as to what PWE/Cryptic do, and how far they are willing to investigate. But for the most part, you cannot hide anything on a game server. It records everything, which is what my post meant to say in the first place, if you read it.


    Except its stupidly easy to get a new IP address and even if they banned by MAC address (they don't) you could circumvent that IP ban by installing a new network card into your computer. The f2p format and ease of account access makes bans temporary or otherwise almost meaningless as a means to prevent hard in game money exploits.
  • rakeleerrakeleer Member, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    You can't ban by MAC address, since that information doesn't cross routes? Many network cards (or operating systems) allow you to change your own MAC anyway. Duh.

    Many ISPs assign static IP addresses to their customers, so if they aren't using a proxy, they can at least force the exploiters to have to deal with their ISPs. Some ISPs NAT all their traffic (not very good ones, mind you, but they do exist) so that wouldn't work well, as they'd be banning an entire ISP's customer base.

    Anyway. A little knowledge is a dangerous thing, I guess.
  • uristqwertyuristqwerty Member Posts: 34
    edited May 2013
    IP and MAC addresses can be very easily changed. However, there are other identifiers they could use, many of them part of your hardware and unchangable.

    So, it would be safer to log IP, MAC, as well as any other notable identifiers, and then compare what other accounts have used the same identifiers as the exploiting account and anyone who interacted with them. Unless they used a new computer with a new IP for every alt, it could all be traced, in theory. Really just depends on how much information is collected and logged, as well as how much time they are willing to spend analyzing it all.

    Edit: Do note, even if the information "doesn't cross routers", they already have a game client running directly on your PC, with direct access to all of that information.
  • rakeleerrakeleer Member, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    Nah, there's no such thing as an unchangeable part of your hardware. Virtual machines, as a last resort, make that a true statement.
  • cocksworthcocksworth Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    uristqwerty wrote: »
    IP and MAC addresses can be very easily changed. However, there are other identifiers they could use, many of them part of your hardware and unchangable.

    So, it would be safer to log IP, MAC, as well as any other notable identifiers, and then compare what other accounts have used the same identifiers as the exploiting account and anyone who interacted with them. Unless they used a new computer with a new IP for every alt, it could all be traced, in theory. Really just depends on how much information is collected and logged, as well as how much time they are willing to spend analyzing it all.

    Spoiler alert: Cryptic isn't as good at their jobs as you would hope. I'd be surprised if they didn't just wipe backlogs after an arbitrary 5 day period or something. Problem is these exploits have been around since closed beta so people could have made dozens of accounts on launch day with no plans to use them as anything but exploit mules. So even if Cryptic was amazing at their network security the sheer number of accounts made during launch would make it impossible to pick out the redundancy you're talking about.
  • rakeleerrakeleer Member, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    uristqwerty wrote: »
    Edit: Do note, even if the information "doesn't cross routers", they already have a game client running directly on your PC, with direct access to all of that information.

    I don't think it would be hard to nuke any information the clients collects and stores locally. Anything client side can be spoofed or cleaned.
  • rakeleerrakeleer Member, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    cocksworth wrote: »
    Spoiler alert: Cryptic isn't as good at their jobs as you would hope. I'd be surprised if they didn't just wipe backlogs after an arbitrary 5 day period or something.

    Quoted for truth.
  • ogariousogarious Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 740 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    fotzik wrote: »
    yeah of course I did, it's against the rules to explain exploits in detail.

    That is very true. But with the game not only closed down, but the AH offline. I think the game will stay down til this is resolved. And if I end up getting banned because of explaining a bug that has existed since CLOSED beta on STO. Then that should make it all the easier for me to chargeback on PWE for my HOTN and funds I spent on zen for this now broken game. I am not the cheater here. And nobody can use my knowledge because the game is already closed down because of this. But if they feel the need to be that spiteful, 2 can play that game.
  • antipodean1antipodean1 Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 2 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    ahhh i wondered what the stupid items in the AH were at -100,000,000 AD for... well that's easily fixed.
  • rakeleerrakeleer Member, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    The bug is, I assume, easily fixed. The damage caused because of exploiters using that AD to impact other peoples' games in the form of making purchases off the AH with it, a tad harder to fix. The changes in spending behavior and the community, also a tad harder to fix. There were, for example, a ton of cat companions introduced into the game that shouldn't have been quite so soon. For those that didn't manage to get one, I guess we'll keep praying for diamonds and grinding dailies and leadership chores to get ours a few months down the road (or however long it takes).

    Meh, doesn't bother me much, but I can see how it might impact parts of the player (customer) base, and perhaps Cryptic's bottom line at the end of the day. Reputation changes as a result of whatever happens may have an impact.

    Not an enviable position to be in. There's no easy way out of this, and all the hard ways out will result in lost players. I imagine there'll be more along eventually, but I have to wonder how many and for how long.
  • somebobsomebob Member Posts: 1,887 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    cocksworth wrote: »
    Spoiler alert: Cryptic isn't as good at their jobs as you would hope.

    Let's put it this way:

    Champions Online had a 'bug' which allowed you to gain infinite money. It persisted for an unknown length of time until it started to get too well known and was finally shut down.

    Cryptic basically said: We had no way to track this exploit. At all. Sorry.

    CO's 'economy' is still very messed up to this very day.
  • reioichireioichi Member Posts: 2 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    See, this is one of the main reasons WHY Cryptic needed to be bought out. If this exploit has existed since STO CB and they are just now able to fix it (one can hope), then they needed the resources a parent company could give them more than they let on. They were, after all, just a tiny company with few resources when they put out Champions and then STO, fewer resources than even they may have realized themselves. They tried the whole independent company thing when they sold City of Heroes to NCSoft and broke off from them, but apparently reality is a real b*tch sometimes...

    Edit: On an unrelated note, @spacebob, Spaceballs is awesome.
  • cocksworthcocksworth Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    somebob wrote: »
    Let's put it this way:

    Champions Online had a 'bug' which allowed you to gain infinite money. It persisted for an unknown length of time until it started to get too well known and was finally shut down.

    Cryptic basically said: We had no way to track this exploit. At all. Sorry.

    CO's 'economy' is still very messed up to this very day.

    And yet every anti-wipe Cryptic defender will call me stupid for saying a wipe is needed and the the economy will fix itself. The real problem is this is a D&D game with D&D fans who are not really into the whole MMO scene. They approach NWO like they did NWN a mostly single player RPG with rich online community aspects. The idea of players being interdependent on each other just from existing on the same server is foreign to a lot of people who play this game. So While I understand where they are coming from I get really tired of hearing them parrot "Exploits don't affect me" over and over.

    But that's the way of the world people pick a side and rally behind cheaters because Cryptic is a mostly terrible company who will never risk zen profits past or present by wiping a game that sorely needs it.
  • darkblazexdarkblazex Member Posts: 4 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    Well, I lost an item (a blue item) because I sent it to a friend to help her out without realizing that chat could cross shards but not mail and i wasn't aware that she had her character on a different shard. Sent out a ticket... ... ...still waiting for word. All they said was that they would look into in. How do we know that they are capable of tracing transactions between characters?
  • lordblackwolf2klordblackwolf2k Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    darkblazex wrote: »
    Well, I lost an item (a blue item) because I sent it to a friend to help her out without realizing that chat could cross shards but not mail and i wasn't aware that she had her character on a different shard. Sent out a ticket... ... ...still waiting for word. All they said was that they would look into in. How do we know that they are capable of tracing transactions between characters?

    Did you check your mail? As it would just go into your mailbox since it wouldn't be able to leave the shard it's on so it should've went into your mailbox. I tried the same thing and ended up with the mail in my box since the mail was unable to reach it's destination.
  • chancef8chancef8 Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 1 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    The sad thing about this whole situation is I was JUST going to buy a founder's pack. I was gone all day but I've really been enjoying this game, so I thought that tonight I'd buy one and commit myself to staying for a while.

    I hope they reopen the servers soon... and I hope they find another solution other then wiping everything, because I would hate to loose my char.
  • wolfmanjackkwolfmanjackk Member Posts: 11 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    rakeleer wrote: »
    Anyway. A little knowledge is a dangerous thing, I guess.

    Nothing in the world is more dangerous then Knowledge... Absolutely nothing...

    Depending on how you look at it. Its a good thing the majority are ignorant..
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MK6TXMsvgQg
    ^^ This video sums up the majority of what i have read on these forums.
    San check roll = -12
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