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Proposed GF changes
talesmith
Member Posts: 116
Reviving and revising this old thread, because it has some interesting ideas in it I think are still valid. One can but give it some thought right.
Class Mechanics
Mark (the debuff)
The challenged target will have lowered damage resistance and you are twice as threatening to it, making your threat doubly effective. Mark is removed after taking to much damage.
Simple scenario: you attack an enemy with a 1 threat attack 5 times without mark and 5 more times with. The old mark would cause you to have 15 threat, this mark would cause you to have 20 threat when the enemy is marked, and 10 when not.
Guard Meter
No longer regenerates after not blocking some time.
Gains a flat increase based on bonus hit points.
Regenerates based on regeneration stat
Temporary Hit Points
Temporary Hit Points from different sources now stack
Powers
Mark (tab)
Scrapped and replaced by
Taunt (tab)
Taunt foes in a cone infront of by repeatedly bashing your shield, marking them and applying a moderate amount of threat.
1.5s cast time, 10s cooldown
Shield Slam
Slam your shield into a foe without leaving yourself vulnerable.
Recovers 10% of your guard meter
Threatening Rush
Rush to target and slam them with a painful looking attack, marking it. Deals additional damage and threat when used on a target not attacking you, this can only occur each 5(3?) seconds on a target.
Guarded Assault (Class Feature)
While blocking, reflect 3% of incoming damage to your attacker
Rank II & III +3%
Iron Warrior (Encounter)
You gain temporary hit points based on your total hit points, and your guard meter can temporarily sustain more damage before breaking.
Enduring Warrior (Class Feature)
You take less damage based on missing hit points.
Feats
Distracting Shield
Blocking an attack causes you to temporarily take 2/4/6/8/10% less damage.
Shielded Resurgence
When affected by a controle power, gain 2/3/4% of your total hit points over 10 seconds. Can happen once every 30 seconds.
Grit
Gain 1/2/3% of your max hit points in temporary hit points when you are healed by a player power (20 seconds cooldown)
Take Measure
When you are crit, gain temporary hit points equal to 1/2/3/4/5% of your max hit points.(30second cooldown)
Fight On moved into Conqueror top far left.
Crushing Pin moved into Conqueror bottom far left.
Plate Agility moved into Tactician top far left.
Improved Vigor moved into Tactician bottom far left.
Take Measure moved into Protector bottom far left.
Improved Reaction moved into Tactician bottom middle left.
Battle Trample moved into Conqueror bottom middle left.
Wrathful Warrior moved into Protector top middle left.
Tactical Superiority moved into Tactician bottom far right.
Terrifying Menace moved into Conqueror top far right.
Surging Tide moved into Protector bottom far right.
Overwhelming Impact moved into Tactician top far right.
Iron Guard
You have mastered the balance between shield and weapon. Every attack you make against an enemy reduces its damage to you by 2% for 5 seconds and every enemy attack blocked by you grants you 2% more damage against that enemy for 5 seconds. Both stack 5 times and stacks refresh duration.
Martial Mastery
Your superior defensive tactics allows you to exploit your opponents weakness as they leave themselves vulnerable trying to get past your guard, granting you an increased crit score against this enemy every time it attacks you based on your damage resistance and the attacks damage. Critically striking an opponent resets the bonus crit against that enemy.
Class Mechanics
Mark (the debuff)
The challenged target will have lowered damage resistance and you are twice as threatening to it, making your threat doubly effective. Mark is removed after taking to much damage.
Simple scenario: you attack an enemy with a 1 threat attack 5 times without mark and 5 more times with. The old mark would cause you to have 15 threat, this mark would cause you to have 20 threat when the enemy is marked, and 10 when not.
Guard Meter
No longer regenerates after not blocking some time.
Gains a flat increase based on bonus hit points.
Regenerates based on regeneration stat
Temporary Hit Points
Temporary Hit Points from different sources now stack
Powers
Mark (tab)
Scrapped and replaced by
Taunt (tab)
Taunt foes in a cone infront of by repeatedly bashing your shield, marking them and applying a moderate amount of threat.
1.5s cast time, 10s cooldown
Shield Slam
Slam your shield into a foe without leaving yourself vulnerable.
Recovers 10% of your guard meter
Threatening Rush
Rush to target and slam them with a painful looking attack, marking it. Deals additional damage and threat when used on a target not attacking you, this can only occur each 5(3?) seconds on a target.
Guarded Assault (Class Feature)
While blocking, reflect 3% of incoming damage to your attacker
Rank II & III +3%
Iron Warrior (Encounter)
You gain temporary hit points based on your total hit points, and your guard meter can temporarily sustain more damage before breaking.
Enduring Warrior (Class Feature)
You take less damage based on missing hit points.
Feats
Distracting Shield
Blocking an attack causes you to temporarily take 2/4/6/8/10% less damage.
Shielded Resurgence
When affected by a controle power, gain 2/3/4% of your total hit points over 10 seconds. Can happen once every 30 seconds.
Grit
Gain 1/2/3% of your max hit points in temporary hit points when you are healed by a player power (20 seconds cooldown)
Take Measure
When you are crit, gain temporary hit points equal to 1/2/3/4/5% of your max hit points.(30second cooldown)
Fight On moved into Conqueror top far left.
Crushing Pin moved into Conqueror bottom far left.
Plate Agility moved into Tactician top far left.
Improved Vigor moved into Tactician bottom far left.
Take Measure moved into Protector bottom far left.
Improved Reaction moved into Tactician bottom middle left.
Battle Trample moved into Conqueror bottom middle left.
Wrathful Warrior moved into Protector top middle left.
Tactical Superiority moved into Tactician bottom far right.
Terrifying Menace moved into Conqueror top far right.
Surging Tide moved into Protector bottom far right.
Overwhelming Impact moved into Tactician top far right.
Iron Guard
You have mastered the balance between shield and weapon. Every attack you make against an enemy reduces its damage to you by 2% for 5 seconds and every enemy attack blocked by you grants you 2% more damage against that enemy for 5 seconds. Both stack 5 times and stacks refresh duration.
Martial Mastery
Your superior defensive tactics allows you to exploit your opponents weakness as they leave themselves vulnerable trying to get past your guard, granting you an increased crit score against this enemy every time it attacks you based on your damage resistance and the attacks damage. Critically striking an opponent resets the bonus crit against that enemy.
Post edited by Unknown User on
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Comments
but I definately agree with your suggestion of Mark(tab), It is way too hard to tank large groups, so having a area taunt would be great.
As for Guarded Assault, I agree there too, the numbers are way too low on that one, its pointless to use.
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The tanking powers and feats are so lacking that's why a purely defensive GF sucks. Shield talent is the only power that increases the guard meter, and @ lvl 60, your guard goes out in like 1 massive hit from an elite add. After that we're sitting ducks, whilst other classes can dodge away forever, the only thing protecting GFs (the guard) is easily broken. Guarded Assault is so underwhelming buff it to 5%. Also that feat that reduces the damage of everything that hits your guard by 5%, it's so weak, it only lasts a couple of seconds to make an actual impact, make it 10 seconds and it will be useful for the whole party (but then again as i've said before, our guard gets destroyed in pve so quick that putting points of feats/powers that only works when guarding becomes a waste of points). The only thing good about the guard meter is the final conqueror feat, where you get double power when you dont guard at all, that's how ugly the current guard meter in pve is.
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What it could become is really only limited by imagination.
Some stuff it could do instead of the current one.
Big aoe taunt (without limited targets).
Make you absolutely have aggro on the target for x amount of time.
Reset any aggro there is on a target and put you on top by a minimal amount.
Be a self buff that doubles the aggro you generate for x amount of time.
Reset all our encounter cooldowns.
Remove all aggro from party members near us.
And really a lot of stuff, but not what it is now.
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Difficulty: Adjustable easy - very hard
Duration: Adjustable 1 - 25min
I would like to suggest a different approach to the guard mechanics if I may.
How about if the guard meter would be replaced by the stamina meter, while at the same time adding a dodge to the combat mechanics for the GF? This would mean that the blocking would need to be changed to use stamina for blocks with a fixed rate (affected by stats).
Many times I have wished on my GF that I could dodge out of harms way instead of blocking.
Yeah I have to agree, with the game putting so much emphasis on attacks that need to be dodged the GF sort of falls short in this regard. When attacks become so extremely powerful the only option is to evade, I do think a GF needs to have the tools to do so.
Wouldn't make sense to have the plate clad fighter lugging a heavy shield around to go around dodging but some manouvrability would be nice.
How about this:
Whilst blocking, move in a direction and press jump to dash a short distance, maintaining guard direction throughout the dash. Consumes stamina
Wouldn't have to be to far, just a couple of feet to get out of dodge when things get to hot, or a nifty tool to reposition whilst maintaining guard. How many stamina would it take though? Not played any other classes so I don't know how much their evades use.
This also happens because of a problem with blocking red circle attacks. To block these attacks you must be facinf the attacks origion. This is not necessarily facing the mob you is attacking you. So Red circles thing "Fireballs" for a generic D&D example explode so to block these you must turn your shield towards the center of the attack and prolly turn your back on the mob your fighting to block these effectively.
Now lets add the problem of 3 red circles on you at once and then you realize blocking them is hopeless. So I went conquere spec GF jacked up my movement and learned to run and dodge. Which is hard very very hard to do as a GF.
I hope that, with the guard meter partly scaling off hit points it will help mitigate the problem a bit, without tilting it to much in favor of simply having a guardian block everything. With an added dodge mechanic for the GF it should also help him survive these red circles of doom. Didn't want to get ahead of myself so I didn't include the dodge mechanic I thought was needed in the OP, don't want to overbuff.
SOme point of this list can be ignored, but for me all of theese are broken things about guardians.
I have to disagree here. Cleave certainly is impressive at damaging multiple targets, but Aggravating Strike can do some neat multi target damage as well. It'll require enemies to stand a bit more in front, wich isn't a problem if you can hold aggro on them. Keyword being hold aggro.
Crushing Surge sucks though, for whatever purpose even single target. No secret there
YOu are right, i was not referring to aggravating strike, that is really good. For this point is a matter of taste. i prefer to see my skills hit all the enemies caught in the animation, instead of the targetted one only.
What this does is make it tactically useful, even in PvP. If a player is out distancing you, and just beyond your gap closer - mark him. If a player is on your cleric and you need a little distance to buy her some time, mark the pursuer. If the recipient of the facing change via mark is skilled, the effect will be less, especially for the situationally aware types out there... but that it how it should be.
At least this would make it also useful in PvP like the other classes Tab abilities (at least I think they are... still kinda new to this game). I think it would be a palatable addition to the skill, because it would not be over powered, but still offer a tactical choice where there is currently zero.
Because of guard becoming useless at high level I intially thought there must be something wrong with its scaling throughout the levels, and hit points rising much better relative to guard meter. But nope, my tests show both hit points and guard meter points have pretty parallel level scaling. Here's some graphs of my data points.
That's normalized estimated guard points and base hit points, so uneffected by con and str. They both level up at about the same rate.
The ratio between the two appears to be a consistent 0.23 points of guard meter gained per hit point.
So in light of this I came to the conclusion that the guard meter recovery and being able to kill monsters before guard break is what makes the guard meter good in solo pve content, but as soon as you start taking harder hits and fighting longer fights and find yourself having to recover guard, the guard meter falls short. So buffs to guard meter recovery and a nerf to its automatic regeneration is in order I feel.
I updated the OP with this new information, take a read if you haven't.