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Astral Diamond Rate

ziliphadeziliphade Member Posts: 16 Arc User
edited May 2013 in General Discussion (PC)
So I recently dove into the torture process that is Invoking, and I noticed something terrible, you get like 100-300 AD per hour, and doing things such as removing enchantments, rushing professions, and purchasing things in the store, would cost an entire 1-3 days worth of Invoking just to do 1 thing.

(1 Day of near perfect Invoking would be around 3000-4000 AD, and rushing a semi-long project in professions or anywhere else for that matter is around 8000 AD, and as for the store the last time I checked things in there were around 160,000 AD so that is nearing a weak if my rough guess is right, and that is stupid)

As I said in my previous thread I am not that experienced with mmorpg's and their currency systems but this just seems rediculas, is there something I don't know? Like does the amount you get depend on current AD economy which is currently in shambles because of the exploits?
Post edited by ziliphade on

Comments

  • soleonesoleone Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    Do Dailies and get additional 24000 AD, do some skirmishes at event time to get ~4-5k.
  • zorpennzorpenn Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 146 Bounty Hunter
    edited May 2013
    Daily quests can give you few thousand AD.
    On the other hand, rushing craft and other stuff is optional.
    Debugging is twice as hard as writing the code in the first place. Therefore, if you write the code as cleverly as possible, you are, by definition, not smart enough to debug it.
  • ziliphadeziliphade Member Posts: 16 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    soleone wrote: »
    Do Dailies and get additional 24000 AD, do some skirmishes at event time to get ~4-5k.
    That must be super high level skirmishes because the last one I did (Around level 15 I think) gave me 600
  • runebanerunebane Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    ziliphade wrote: »
    As I said in my previous thread I am not that experienced with mmorpg's and their currency systems but this just seems rediculas, is there something I don't know? Like does the amount you get depend on current AD economy which is currently in shambles because of the exploits?

    The prices are a bit high in my opinion. But you also seem to be overlooking the other ways to get Astral Diamonds. Daily quests reward them. Also I get most of my Diamonds from the Leadership profession.
    ziliphade wrote: »
    (1 Day of near perfect Invoking would be around 3000-7000 AD, and rushing a semi-long project in professions or anywhere else for that matter is around 8000 AD, and as for the store the last time I checked things in there were around 160,000 AD so that is nearing a weak if my rough guess is right, and that is stupid)


    I have to ask... How do you get anywhere near 7K AD from invoking? Or do you mean for all your characters? My characters are bugged and still getting double diamonds and I still don't get 7K a day each. After a few invocations I am down to getting junk.
    Halgarth's Legacy - NWS-DSTGFZHFR
  • ziliphadeziliphade Member Posts: 16 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    runebane wrote: »
    The prices are a bit high in my opinion. But you also seem to be overlooking the other ways to get Astral Diamonds. Daily quests reward them. Also I get most of my Diamonds from the Leadership profession.




    I have to ask... How do you get anywhere near 7K AD from invoking? Or do you mean for all your characters? My characters are bugged and still getting double diamonds and I still don't get 7K a day each. After a few invocations I am down to getting junk.
    To Answer your second question, I meant to put 4000 not 7000, derp, I took the average ad per invoke times maximum amount of hours in a day, even though you would NEVER invoke every hour on the hour, to further prove how pitiful getting ad from invoke is.
  • notroarwafflenotroarwaffle Member Posts: 24 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    Most of the AD you'll get in the game will come from auctioning off items. Invokation and daily quests are a nice little boost, though I only rely on it to get a little extra in order to even list an item.
  • runebanerunebane Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    ziliphade wrote: »
    To Answer your second question, I meant to put 4000 not 7000, derp, I took the average ad per invoke times maximum amount of hours in a day, even though you would NEVER invoke every hour on the hour, to further prove how pitiful getting ad from invoke is.

    Invoking all day doesn't seem to work anyway. I've got 5 characters doing the leadership missions. Checking on them every 2 hours and invoking then. First 3-4 invocations give AD after that they stop getting any AD and just get a buff and maybe a potion. I never could find any detailed information on how its suppose to work.
    Halgarth's Legacy - NWS-DSTGFZHFR
  • lyokiralyokira Member Posts: 882 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    soleone wrote: »
    Do Dailies and get additional 24000 AD, do some skirmishes at event time to get ~4-5k.
    Inaccurate, the 24k AD is after adding up all normal AD procurement methods, on a single character. However, you can also do the same with your other character slot, netting you 48k max from this source (for pure F2P).

    Of course, you also can get AD from AH and AD/Zen exchange, but someone must have made those AD first in order to trade with you.

    The concern here is that the AD sinks is far larger than the AD market injection rate (which would invariably drive up demand for AD). Which all in all, is actually a good thing: It means that people with money are more likely to trade Zen for AD, AD is less likely to undergo massive inflation as tends to be the norm for the main currency in many other MMOs, and for the froobs, they just have to be more careful with their AD allocation costs, meaning no frivolous profession rushing and etc.

    Of course, this is all an well in theory, but i practice, until they get rid of some of the shortcomings of the F2P system, I can see that exploits can still cause market imbalance.
  • ziliphadeziliphade Member Posts: 16 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    Most of the AD you'll get in the game will come from auctioning off items. Invokation and daily quests are a nice little boost, though I only rely on it to get a little extra in order to even list an item.

    Well I havn't had any luck with the auction house because, well, not to sound bitter but everyone is going to think "Why would I waste my time invoking and questing for AD to buy this guys HAMSTER, when I can exploit it"

    Probably making everything I put up worth nothing.
  • notroarwafflenotroarwaffle Member Posts: 24 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    ziliphade wrote: »
    Well I havn't had any luck with the auction house because, well, not to sound bitter but everyone is going to think "Why would I waste my time invoking and questing for AD to buy this guys HAMSTER, when I can exploit it"

    Probably making everything I put up worth nothing.

    Generally only rare and very rare items sell on the AH. So, basically, AD is more of a convenience than anything until level 60.
  • notroarwafflenotroarwaffle Member Posts: 24 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    runebane wrote: »
    Invoking all day doesn't seem to work anyway. I've got 5 characters doing the leadership missions. Checking on them every 2 hours and invoking then. First 3-4 invocations give AD after that they stop getting any AD and just get a buff and maybe a potion. I never could find any detailed information on how its suppose to work.

    I'm pretty sure that's how it's supposed to work. You get a bit of AD for the first few times you invoke, then only a buff for the rest of the day.
  • vaeledrinvaeledrin Member Posts: 147 Bounty Hunter
    edited May 2013
    There is a thread somewhere that details how to get AD quickly without playing the Auction House. It involves using Leadership Profession and what not to get enough AD to get 500 zen to expand your character slots. Then roll up extra level 10s and have them do Leadership. Rinse and repeat till you have all 11 slots filled. Use the website to quickly run professions every 2 hours and you'll net something like 150k+ daily.
  • lyokiralyokira Member Posts: 882 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    Generally only rare and very rare items sell on the AH. So, basically, AD is more of a convenience than anything until level 60.

    Runes also start selling from R4 onwards, and so does some profession assets/resources. Not obscene high amounts of course, but enough to make it at least somewhat worthwhile. (Not to mention clearing up valuable bag space)
  • ziliphadeziliphade Member Posts: 16 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    I was kind of hoping I could earn AD in a legit way, but everything about NW has been based around exploits so far.
  • vaeledrinvaeledrin Member Posts: 147 Bounty Hunter
    edited May 2013
    ziliphade wrote: »
    I was kind of hoping I could earn AD in a legit way, but everything about NW has been based around exploits so far.

    In a player driven economy there will always be the exploited and there will always be the ones doing the exploitation. However, there is a third way in this case one that is highlighted by Richard Dawkins - you screw the system and cooperate.
  • ziliphadeziliphade Member Posts: 16 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    vaeledrin wrote: »
    In a player driven economy there will always be the exploited and there will always be the ones doing the exploitation. However, there is a third way in this case one that is highlighted by Richard Dawkins - you screw the system and cooperate.
    But then, even if only by a tiny TINY fraction, and a little bit in my own head, I am HELPING the problem, I don't want to sink that low ever, but it is getting really ******* hard.
  • xen1912xen1912 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 309 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    at level 60 you get between 1000 and 1500 AD per invoke.

  • vaeledrinvaeledrin Member Posts: 147 Bounty Hunter
    edited May 2013
    ziliphade wrote: »
    But then, even if only by a tiny TINY fraction, and a little bit in my own head, I am HELPING the problem, I don't want to sink that low ever, but it is getting really ******* hard.

    The system is designed to screw you over one way or another, but the question is can they make it an illusion so you're actually willing to be ****ed over by them? Valve does this in a hilarious way where you are literally giving them money for something you absolutely will not use most of the time.

    However, the way the system is set up currently a lot of people feel 'cheated' or 'insulted' or somehow their dignity has been damaged.

    So let me change gears a bit. Think about it this way, by ensuring that you have a comfortable base to play the game and manifesting your own happiness with this product you may be more inclined to donate money rather than trying to go through it 'legitimately' because... you will almost never reach 24k with refinement by 'normal' means and if you play the Auction House -which has crashed - you are relying on someone being desperate enough or stupid enough to buy your goods (that will only sell for 1k-5k) .

    When you are happy with this game, meaning you're decked out with epics, the supposed pay2win enchants, then perhaps you'll be content enough to figure that the devs deserve something so you'll throw them 5 to 10 dollars every now and then rather than feel dreadful when you stare at the Buy Zen button because you'll have no illusion that they are looking to **** you over.

    There is no problem, everything is fine. What matters the most is that you are happy and that you have no regrets spending time in a game so long as it doesn't affect others (such as spamming level 10s to grind professions). Why should a game like this make you feel horrible or outraged?

    Anyways, there isn't a problem and doing these things wouldn't contribute to anything but your own happiness and future in Neverwinter. Things will be fixed and either prices will come down and you can then spend with a smile or things won't and you'll have enough cushion to support yourself and occasionally donate when you feel it is justified. Whether you use methods you find dubious or not has no real consequence as these things must be and will be adjusted.

    Don't hold yourself back. You're a god among insects.
  • bzzzdbzzzd Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    lyokira wrote: »
    undergo massive inflation as tends to be the norm for the main currency in many other MMOs,

    ratio is capped at 500 ad per zen, it can't get higher than that.
  • lyokiralyokira Member Posts: 882 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    bzzzd wrote: »
    ratio is capped at 500 ad per zen, it can't get higher than that.

    Inflation of AD in AH, not Zen/AD exchange.
  • kiralynkiralyn Member Posts: 1,440 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    I'm hoping/expecting that, in a few months, they'll re-balance the daily AD gain & costs.

    This is based on my experiences with STO. Admittedly, they don't use Dilithium (that game's version of AD) in the Auction, which is a big change, but.... the refining limit is 1/3rd of what it is here (8k), but the costs of things are much less than 1/3. There's nothing equivalent of the 2mil horse training, for example. Additionally, with a capped character, getting that 8k dilithium take about an hour. Getting your 24k in NWO seems like it'll take a great deal more time - just queuing for one dungeon and running it for 3k AD takes that long. It's not practical to do it on multiple characters.

    And yeah, you can sell stuff at auction - if you find something worth selling. And (more importantly) that's just AD recirculated from other players.... once the bonus AD from founders is used up (in the various currency sinks) the stuff refined by everyone daily will be the only AD the economy has to run on. That small pool of AD will have to sustain the auction, and be used up in sinks (appearance change, speedups, ID scrolls, etc). Unless something changes, I don't think it's sustainable. But we'll see.
  • vaeledrinvaeledrin Member Posts: 147 Bounty Hunter
    edited May 2013
    I believe you need to complete a dungeon four times for the daily to count at 60. So, if you're unlucky and you don't queue during dungeon delve you may be waiting for up to 45 minutes. You spend most of your time waiting... you can't PvP, you can probably just grind regular mobs or something or go out to gather profession nodes but that's about it.

    Then afterwards you can look at the Gaultkntnttlgym dailies if they're available, do 4 skirmishes, and play in 4 pvp matches. I somehow doubt most people will have that much time.

    As for playing the AH, well that's largely diminished thanks to the so-called exploiters and how easy it is to get gear. So a few months down the line people who start new or people who weren't able to make a foothold will be suffering one way or another. But that's apparently okay so we just have to deal with it.
  • kiralynkiralyn Member Posts: 1,440 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    vaeledrin wrote: »
    I believe you need to complete a dungeon four times for the daily to count at 60.

    Really? Well, HAMSTER. There hasn't been an MMO yet where I've bulk-run dungeons. (heck, I probably did less than 2 dozen dungeon runs in the entirety of the last three WoW expansions I played. But that was fine, there was plenty of other content to do. Looks like that won't be the case here - seems to be 90% of everything is queued party things.)


    ..that would be another difference between NWO diamonds and STO dilithium. There's an 8k cap on refining dilithium, but probably at least 16-20k dilithium worth of things you can do. Group-only content, group-optional content, solo content. Of course, that game's had three years to develop more stuff, while NWO's just getting started.
  • vaeledrinvaeledrin Member Posts: 147 Bounty Hunter
    edited May 2013
    Well, Kiralyn, fret not. You still have the Foundry.

    To be honest you don't really need AD to do anything except to remain competitive in PvP and the price currently is pretty darn high!
  • kiralynkiralyn Member Posts: 1,440 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    vaeledrin wrote: »
    Well, Kiralyn, fret not. You still have the Foundry.

    To be honest you don't really need AD to do anything except to remain competitive in PvP and the price currently is pretty darn high!

    Meh, I need/want AD to 1. get things from the cash shop (it's worked in STO. yeah, I spent some $ in that game, but I also have gotten 8-10k zen from the exchange), and 2. do appearance swaps on gear (those fees will suck it up pretty fast.)

    :p
  • wingedkagoutiwingedkagouti Member Posts: 275 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    vaeledrin wrote: »
    I believe you need to complete a dungeon four times for the daily to count at 60.
    Dungeon is once for the daily, it is unfortunately fixed at the Dread Vault. Foundry is 4 quests. No Skirmish daily at 60.
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