Dungeons way too difficult...

lakesidemaiden · May 2013

So I really am not looking to complain - I just want to draw attention to something.

At first I thought it was a fluke - the Green Dragon Den dungeon...attempted this 3 times, died multiple times each attempt - until the party that was given to me all dropped out of sheer frustration. So then I tried the Grey Wolf Dungeon - same thing, only the party didn't drop out and after all of us dying at least 5 times each, we finally finished it -- by the skin of our teeth. So I try the same one the next day - no go. We all died, and eventually everyone gave up and dropped out of the party. Today we try the Pirate King dungeon -- same thing as always. We get to the final battle, get our butts handed to us a few times, run out of potions and everyone drops out.

I'm a Control Wizard. I'm not low level. I've got decent stats and spells. Why is it that I can't finish a dungeon on a non-Epic level??! Is this Cryptics way of cheating us out of free Astral Diamonds? IDK. I'm just seriously frustrated, as I know a few other people are.

Can we lower the difficulty by a little bit so that we can actually finish our objectives??!

K, thanks. I'm off my soapbox now.

clockwerkninja · May 2013

I think dungeons are fine, class mechanics are a bit screwed up.

granatar · May 2013

No I don't think they are to hard, they just take some organization.

diliria · May 2013

The fact is that epic t1-t2 doesn't necessarly mean more difficult.
Dread vault boss is far more difficult than 3/4 of t1 dungeons.
Mad dragon boss is harder than most t2 ones and so on.
To this add the broken queue system and that's it, it's almost impossible to pug random dungeons, you gotta get a good party.

For me, they should adjust the difficulty scale between bosses and the rest of the dungeon, i know it's supposed to be harder but some dungeons are really braindead till the boss, that's where you understand that your party won't make it and you wasted a full run.

stangiato · May 2013

I've been in quite a few and the last 4 have resulted in the party leaving each and every time. We all died at least 4 times each dungeon, so I'd have to disagree. As for organization, it's fairly simple to do but to try and type while running around killing things is impossible. I've seen clerics stay in the background and heal and they are the first to go. Fighters are third after I go either before or after the cleric. I've stayed out of the fire to try and help, doesn't work, I die. I've also watched it as a bystander (first one to go), there is far too much to get through each wave of things that come in. I get the reinforcements and all but there's a point where headway should be made. So, I disagree with them being fine.

stangiato · May 2013

I agree to that to a point. Perhaps there should be a way to pick the type of party members (ie: at least one fighter, one cleric, one mage....or whatever you think would suit the party). If people can choose the party (even as a single person going in per day without having to run around the Enclave), I think it would serve the game better.

lakesidemaiden · May 2013

One more question (wish I could update the poll with this). Out of the people who have said they have no issues with the dungeon difficulty - do you spend actual money on the game (ie. purchase ZEN coins to buy better items in the game), or do you take the long process of playing and earning your items?

majtrollx · May 2013

When the dragon goes around half HP, it spawns adds that heal. Noobs don't focus and them, so they wipe all day long.

elanith · May 2013

Ive purchased exactly 2 items using AD once i hit 60. 1 was 10k AD and 1 was my weapon which was 25k AD. Thats it everything else was stuff i received leveling up or in the instance itself.

I don't have a problem with the diff of the instance not because i dont have problems with getting through an instance, but because i enjoy the difficulty. I dont want to faceroll through boss after boss. As people see these bosses more, as stratagies become more common for each fight, well all be facerolling through them soon enough anyway.

bluereverend · May 2013

I finished the Mad Dragon dungeon for the first time today after failing it miserably 2-3 times on multiple tries before.
First go we did pretty good by got wiped when he had about 1/4 HP left, then we just sat a bit and discussed some strategy, it was an intense fight but went off without a hitch and we won.

Its all about having the right people and right strategy. What I can recommend for the Mad Dragon boss, have everyone except 1 rouge focus ONLY on the mobs, and only the remaining rogue dealing damage to the dragon. We actually had 1 of each class in our party and managed the mobs surprisingly well.
Its really such a rush after you beat him

lim3yy · May 2013

I think the actual bosses aren't hard, it's the adds that spawn in every fight that need some adjusting. It seems that in every T2 dungeon I do that once you kill the adds a new group spawns in less than 5 seconds and you're barely doing any damage to the boss, and if you leave one person on the boss to constantly DPS you have a low chance of killing all the adds, and eventually they'll pile up and you wipe. I haven't done a lot of the dungeons as I mostly PVP but it would be nice to see some mechanics other than adds, because the boss mechanics aren't that difficult to get out of.

lakesidemaiden · May 2013

elanith wrote: »

I don't have a problem with the diff of the instance not because i dont have problems with getting through an instance, but because i enjoy the difficulty. I dont want to faceroll through boss after boss. As people see these bosses more, as stratagies become more common for each fight, well all be facerolling through them soon enough anyway.

I don't have an issue with the difficulty per se, I agree that if it was too easy, it would be boring. I do however have an issue with it being TOO difficult and it's pretty much impossible to beat - failing 5 times in one Dungeon tends to discourage you from trying again - plus, if you get frustrated and quit, then go out and do regular quests, you'll level up and not have the chance to try that dungeon again. IDK. Guess I'm the only one who gets sick of repeatedly dying, wasting money on potions, and ridiculous amounts of time trying to complete a side quest dungeon

bluereverend wrote: »

...First go we did pretty good by got wiped when he had about 1/4 HP left, then we just sat a bit and discussed some strategy, it was an intense fight but went off without a hitch and we won....

See, one of the problems that I have is that no one sticks around to discuss strategy. They either bail on the Dungeon, or they head right back into the battle once we've all been killed the first time. That's one of the most frustrating bits about it.

lakesidemaiden · May 2013

lim3yy wrote: »

I think the actual bosses aren't hard, it's the adds that spawn in every fight that need some adjusting. It seems that in every T2 dungeon I do that once you kill the adds a new group spawns in less than 5 seconds and you're barely doing any damage to the boss, and if you leave one person on the boss to constantly DPS you have a low chance of killing all the adds, and eventually they'll pile up and you wipe. I haven't done a lot of the dungeons as I mostly PVP but it would be nice to see some mechanics other than adds, because the boss mechanics aren't that difficult to get out of.

This too - like the actual boss wouldn't be difficult enough, but they have to send in the legions of the Nine Hells after you while you're trying to stay alive attempting to defeat the main guy LOL

jeweledbird · May 2013

diliria wrote: »

The fact is that epic t1-t2 doesn't necessarly mean more difficult.
Dread vault boss is far more difficult than 3/4 of t1 dungeons.
Mad dragon boss is harder than most t2 ones and so on.
To this add the broken queue system and that's it, it's almost impossible to pug random dungeons, you gotta get a good party.

For me, they should adjust the difficulty scale between bosses and the rest of the dungeon, i know it's supposed to be harder but some dungeons are really braindead till the boss, that's where you understand that your party won't make it and you wasted a full run.

Exactly this. I've experienced several runs where the group blasts through the dungeon only to hit a massive wall when we reach the end boss. And it's usually the waves upon waves upon waves of adds the boss summons that does us in, especially since they all seem to want to focus on the healer.

It's awful to have wasted all that time, energy and mats (potions, injury kits) and have nothing to show for it.

Edit: Also want to add that most of the end bosses' mechanics seem to favor ranged over melee and, especially when the adds spawn, AoE over single target--which kinda sucks for my poor rogue.

lerdocix · May 2013

lakesidemaiden wrote: »

So I really am not looking to complain - I just want to draw attention to something.

At first I thought it was a fluke - the Green Dragon Den dungeon...attempted this 3 times, died multiple times each attempt - until the party that was given to me all dropped out of sheer frustration. So then I tried the Grey Wolf Dungeon - same thing, only the party didn't drop out and after all of us dying at least 5 times each, we finally finished it -- by the skin of our teeth. So I try the same one the next day - no go. We all died, and eventually everyone gave up and dropped out of the party. Today we try the Pirate King dungeon -- same thing as always. We get to the final battle, get our butts handed to us a few times, run out of potions and everyone drops out.

I'm a Control Wizard. I'm not low level. I've got decent stats and spells. Why is it that I can't finish a dungeon on a non-Epic level??! Is this Cryptics way of cheating us out of free Astral Diamonds? IDK. I'm just seriously frustrated, as I know a few other people are.

Can we lower the difficulty by a little bit so that we can actually finish our objectives??!

K, thanks. I'm off my soapbox now.

If you and people you play with in pugs share the mentality of "zerg boss, cleric tanks adds" then you will allways fail at bosses, heroic or not.
Everyone needs to know their role and what to do, then its fine, not always easy, but always doable.

bluereverend · May 2013

lakesidemaiden wrote: »

See, one of the problems that I have is that no one sticks around to discuss strategy. They either bail on the Dungeon, or they head right back into the battle once we've all been killed the first time. That's one of the most frustrating bits about it.

I agree its frustrating but its really no fault of the game, just the players, not a lot you can do but try and build yourself a dedicated party(maybe from joining a guild?)

slytesh · May 2013

Just get 2 Clerics plus 2 TR/1CW or 1TR/2CW and dungeons should be easy :P

kordavox · May 2013

I just spent about 2 hours doing 5 attempts of the last boss in the Dread Vault, which is the daily. Ridiculous. My group was good but we just didn't have the damage required to kill the adds on the 33% mini-boss that spawns during the fight. Isn't this a level 60 normal dungeon? What do they expect of new 60s? (Note: I did farm all the pvp gear to prepare for lvl 60 dungeons, but that shouldn't be necessary across the board.)
Group was GF,C,TR,GWF,GWF

zylaxx · May 2013

Please do not nerf content it only causes people to get bored. I love the fact that most of the T2 dungeons can't be pugged which requires teamwork and voip comms.

kordavox · May 2013

If you don't make the game accessible to common players who pug, it will wither and die quickly.

nawdle · May 2013

kordavox wrote: »

I just spent about 2 hours doing 5 attempts of the last boss in the Dread Vault, which is the daily. Ridiculous. My group was good but we just didn't have the damage required to kill the adds on the 33% mini-boss that spawns during the fight. Isn't this a level 60 normal dungeon? What do they expect of new 60s? (Note: I did farm all the pvp gear to prepare for lvl 60 dungeons, but that shouldn't be necessary across the board.)
Group was GF,C,TR,GWF,GWF

I did that dungeon immediately after I hit 60. Didn't get any new gear, just queued and went straight in. Most of my team were in similar (maybe slightly better but still mostly greens) gear. 5th try, we got him. Still best boss fight I've done in this game- was amazing fun and so satisfying to beat. We did alot of talking tactics and found the one that worked.

Please dear God do not nerf this fight. It is entirely possible, people just need to use their heads and communicate. And sometimes, there's a difficulty threshold, and players just need to get better to pass it. It's no different from single player games where, if you can't beat a boss, you have to improve. It's not a top 10% only boss.

If the game is made so that any player can do anything, it will be boring for all but the bottom 2% that actually find it challenging. People feel way too entitled to their loot and forget that you're supposed to enjoy yourself- the reward only has meaning if you earned it.

massytalk · May 2013

I have been in the same boat MD run that goes horribly wrong the issue was that the group couldn't do enough dmg (PS- don't take two healers even when one says I'm dps build)... What I'm saying is that when you do finally drop the boss it is very fullfilling... Another issue I agree with you on is that the "K"-Que up for dungeons seems to under level you I ended up having to start a group and entering through the front door... They could fix it by letting you Que up a couple of levels higher IMHO.

weeatdimsum · May 2013

I'm not having any issues with any of the dungeons. Then again I generally only run content with friends. However, that being said. With any encounter we haven't done before, the first thing we do is look for patterns that the boss does. I think this is where most pugs fail. If you know the patterns, speak up. If you don't, listen. If nobody knows what's going on, then looking for these patterns is priority #1 BEFORE you go burn mode.

I should post this bit of advice in a lot of threads, but I'll just post it here:
Fighting the adds is part of the boss fight. Get used to it. Love it. Watch each other's backs.

Dungeons way too difficult...

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