One thing that's killing the fun while running group content as GF

jonezky92 · May 2013

I've ventured to level 30ish with my Guardian Fighter and I agree with the others that this game sure has the potentional to become more than steady MMO game, you know the drill.

But one aspect of the game I've noticed while leveling and running skirmishes/dungeons that's pretty much kiling the fun is the aggro management is really ****ed up, at least in the low lvl.
For example. yesterday I had really succesful and fast skirmish run. Of course we had traditionally that guy who was always commenting on something and pretty much no one cared because everything was going fast and easy.
But what really got to me was his (GWF) response after we defeated the boss: "

Thanks for the run guys (minus the tank, I had mobs on me pretty much all the time, annoying...)". That was quote to quote his response.

Not that I felt offended personally because I knew it's not L2P issue but a gamemechanic issue. I've seen other players complaining a lot of the aggro management also so it's not me.

TL;DR: Aggro mangement sucks at low lvls, don't know if it's the case at higher lvls also but what I'm really looking for is there any reponse from the devs; is it working as intended or are they planning on changing it? Or have I missed something about tanking in this game?

khail33 · May 2013

Use your Mark (spam it), Enforced Threat and Enhanced Threat. Position the mobs away from the group and tell any Control Wizard not to spam their knockbacks (this is pretty much aggravating). Some mobs like Hulks have fixated aggro on healers meaning they must be kited. Do not step in red circles, cones, SHIFT+CLICK is your friend and once you get Into the Fray and Iron Warrior spam those like no tomorrow. Your party will love you.

imivo · May 2013

At lower levels people still have WoW expectations, both GFs themselves and especially other players who think a tank in NW should be able to hold aggro on all mobs. It is not going to happen and if you keep the large mob or the boss, you have done your job. That GWF should have tanked the adds, but that does not work so well currently.

anotech · May 2013

Once you get threatening surge, you want to combine that with your threat passive and enforced threat. Possibly even frontline surge... and of course cleave. Once you interweave those abilities you can aoe aggro pack after pack.

For single target, just switch to your lunge and griffon strike (after initially dashing in with threatening surge).

Those quick hits on your marked target will rocket you to the top of threat board.

That being said, I still feel there are many issues with GF... but hey... I think everyone is complaining about something.

forsakenlich1 · May 2013

your not supposed to have fun

your supposed to level up

go back to hello kitty island adventure

gadenphoenix · May 2013

Level 60 GF here.

I like to aggro mobs at the main group. Using the other people also as meat shield to protect the healer.

So if the mob breaks threat, which they will more often then not ALOT, they will attack someone else but the healer. And is easier for me to threaten them back.

Also allows me to rush off to kite mobs away from the healer, then rush back and regain aggro.

Anyways a GWF is an OFF TANK. So I do not know why that GWF is complaining.

lyokira · May 2013

gadenphoenix wrote: »

Level 60 GF here.

I like to aggro mobs at the main group. Using the other people also as meat shield to protect the healer.

So if the mob breaks threat, which they will more often then not ALOT, they will attack someone else but the healer. And is easier for me to threaten them back.

Also allows me to rush off to kite mobs away from the healer, then rush back and regain aggro.

Anyways a GWF is an OFF TANK. So I do not know why that GWF is complaining.

Maybe it's a horribly failed attempt at sarcasm?

gadenphoenix · May 2013

Also forgot to add for Combat Advantage and for situational awareness. Try to tank facing your main group so:
1. You can keep an eye on the healer (the rest of your group can take some dmg but if healer goes down the whole group dies)
2. Combat Advantage for everyone (aka more dps) if mobs are facing you and not the rest of the group

The bad is you cannot see incoming mobs (that seldom is a worry). Unless you have someone that gets bored easily and wants to move it faster by aggroing more mobs.

ganjaman1 · May 2013

jonezky92 wrote: »

I've ventured to level 30ish with my Guardian Fighter and I agree with the others that this game sure has the potentional to become more than steady MMO game, you know the drill.

But one aspect of the game I've noticed while leveling and running skirmishes/dungeons that's pretty much kiling the fun is the aggro management is really ****ed up, at least in the low lvl.
For example. yesterday I had really succesful and fast skirmish run. Of course we had traditionally that guy who was always commenting on something and pretty much no one cared because everything was going fast and easy.
But what really got to me was his (GWF) response after we defeated the boss: "

Thanks for the run guys (minus the tank, I had mobs on me pretty much all the time, annoying...)". That was quote to quote his response.

Not that I felt offended personally because I knew it's not L2P issue but a gamemechanic issue. I've seen other players complaining a lot of the aggro management also so it's not me.

TL;DR: Aggro mangement sucks at low lvls, don't know if it's the case at higher lvls also but what I'm really looking for is there any reponse from the devs; is it working as intended or are they planning on changing it? Or have I missed something about tanking in this game?

At lvl 60 they just don't want you in the group , your taunt does nothing

The clerics tank + heal + dps + HAMSTER rainbows + pull an occasional rabbit out of their HAMSTER while you just do mediocre dps compared to everyone else ( assuming you didn't abuse the T1 bug and now you don't have the best gear in the game to be competitive as a dps ) and playing a GWF is a myth . Reroll something else untill they fix the aggro BS and the broken shield stacking cheese duo cleric comps in pve and pvp .

perfectindigo · May 2013

I agree that aggro management is miserable for GF, particularly at low levels. It gets better but it never becomes easy, regardless of people saying that it's a question of gear or specific skills.

And it's true that people have expectations for what a tank should be based on what a tank is in other MMOs. These expectations create frustration because GFs don't meet those expectations. People don't understand that Neverwinter tanks cannot keep all aggro. Tanks can't keep both the boss aggro and the mob aggro ... Tanks can, if they work at it full time, keep most things off the cleric, but they have to prioritize. Clerics are aggro magnets, so GFs spend a lot of time guarding the cleric followed by either aggroing a mob or the boss. GFs don't have a lot of time left over to guard other party members.

So, people get hit, have to use their own variety of skills to dodge / slide away / dash / etc and blame the tank. I don't think people understand that in Neverwinter, there is no big tank that will suck up all the aggro while other people just click rotations and watch big numbers scroll by. There are plenty of times when people are on their own, and it's not the tank being bad.

I too am curious if GFs are broken or if GFs are working as intended according to devs.

snowballo · May 2013

Never had trouble with aggro past lvl 35 GF.
Once ya get threatening rush and know how to use it, you will keep any aggro you want.

(Except aggro from the tank companion, because tank companion is a real tank boss and his taunt is law, so mobs have to obey and hit him, but it's cool cuz you can leave them hitting the tank companion, that's why he's tank companion and not a wuss)

airlian · May 2013

The GWF should be grateful about the fact that he had mobs on him, as that means he could build up determination a lot faster. Just disregard what he said.

And yeah, aggro management sucks, but I don't think this game is intented to work with a holy trinity, but it's supposed to follow the 4e rules. For example the dungeon finder doesn't make an effort to always give you a tank and a healer.

kr0owe · May 2013

It gets better at 35 to hold aggro but i picked a GF to tank bosses, not adds...

snowballo wrote: »

Never had trouble with aggro past lvl 35 GF.
Once ya get threatening rush and know how to use it, you will keep any aggro you want.

(Except aggro from the tank companion, because tank companion is a real tank boss and his taunt is law, so mobs have to obey and hit him, but it's cool cuz you can leave them hitting the tank companion, that's why he's tank companion and not a wuss)

I think they should remove companions from dungeons, i hate them and that tank companion take away all fun.

maiku217 · May 2013

Who needs aggro management when you kill everything?

Everyone left because someone dced.. just another pug.

stormganzo · May 2013

kr0owe wrote: »

I think they should remove companions from dungeons, i hate them and that tank companion take away all fun.

Companions are a bit stupids and i dont like them too. As GF i use the healer one to support me, but most of the time that idiot buddy come on close combat range instead of keep distance and heal me.
The tanky one if you are a tank, is just a pain in the ***, it definitely kill your fun as tank.

ufgt · May 2013

People will just need to accept that GFs can't tank everything. I usually mitigate this by saving frontline surge for those times when I lose the mob and have to peel for the Cleric. Gives them enough time to get away and gives me enough time to re establish threat.

supp1sh · May 2013

perfectindigo wrote: »

I agree that aggro management is miserable for GF, particularly at low levels. It gets better but it never becomes easy, regardless of people saying that it's a question of gear or specific skills.

And it's true that people have expectations for what a tank should be based on what a tank is in other MMOs. These expectations create frustration because GFs don't meet those expectations. People don't understand that Neverwinter tanks cannot keep all aggro. Tanks can't keep both the boss aggro and the mob aggro ... Tanks can, if they work at it full time, keep most things off the cleric, but they have to prioritize. Clerics are aggro magnets, so GFs spend a lot of time guarding the cleric followed by either aggroing a mob or the boss. GFs don't have a lot of time left over to guard other party members.

So, people get hit, have to use their own variety of skills to dodge / slide away / dash / etc and blame the tank. I don't think people understand that in Neverwinter, there is no big tank that will suck up all the aggro while other people just click rotations and watch big numbers scroll by. There are plenty of times when people are on their own, and it's not the tank being bad.

I too am curious if GFs are broken or if GFs are working as intended according to devs.

they are broken to a degree, or rather the clerics are. I agree that this is not wow and each party member is going to have a mob on them at some point. but the problem is that everything pulls agro more than the GF when is should be the other way around. clerics especially pull threat and can die when there's a mob the leaps to them (aka 5-6 blademasters lunging strike on the cleric, he dead. wipe) GF's should be focusing on holding boss plus elite mobs off the party members, but instead ignores the boss completely and then cant even agro most of the other mobs. I know, GF is my class. I now focus on dps only because it's better to nuke down the mobs b4 the cleric/CW dies than sit there trying to get threat when the mob doesnt care about anything except heals and damage.

and for people saying to go specific builds to to nothing but build threat, well that proves the class is broken. so in order to tank i'm locked into a certain build/way of doing it? no thank you. once i see the threat fixed in-game, then we can look at if other things are broken (aka mark, which i think enforced threat should just replace it and give us a new taunt encounter).

ALSO MELEE DPS! everything in this game can hit everything in front of it with a standard attack. please stop standing right next to me and then ***** about the damage you're taking or how you died. seriously, if i walk all the way around to the enemy's backside and then you decide to stand there with me: they will hit both of us. i will live. you will die

Edit: in summary, GF's should be able to hold agro most of the time with only some mobs escaping and hitting group (small enough they can dodge/dps them down on their own). which right now is not the case. the majority of the time, mobs run wild and focus on the cleric or anyone but the GF which defeats the purpose of a heavily armored, high HP member of the group

One thing that's killing the fun while running group content as GF

Comments