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What exactly IS Pay to Win?
powersoul
Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 0 Arc User
As an old school MMO player (Everquest, Ultima, FFXI) I have had the pleasure to play through a lot of different games with a bunch of unique or overused concepts that either make or break every one of them.
I didn't start hearing the term Pay to Win until free to play MMOs started becoming popular sometime during WoW's early life when Silkroad online started picking up steam.
I'm convinced that the term has turned into more of a baseless idea that any method that bypasses difficulty is pay to win. This is actually not true at all.
For one, difficulty is subjective, and relative to the players themselves. Secondly, something pay to win is otherwise virtually unachievable to general players.
Some examples of Pay to Win features.
Runes of Magic had a pay to win Cash Shop. Gear was the factor there. Using the cash shop you could rip specific stats off some items, and using the cash shop again you could add these stats to any gear. Again you could use the cash shop to boost all of the stats to the highest tier making your character literally dominate every single person who did not pay into it the way you did, Period. (<--period) Example screenshot in the link below.
http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e369/eFKnight/RAScrnShot_20110903_171625.jpg
THIS IS PAY TO WIN. Is this in Neverwinter? No. In Neverwinter you can PvP casually and end up with a full set of purple gear at level 60, which may not entirely benefit your stat preference. But at that point you are strong enough to run any instance to get the gear you more specifically want. Hell most of this stuff is still dirt cheap on the AH.
Another example of a game that is pay to win is when it has a high level cap that takes a very long time of grinding to achieve, but gives you exp boosters from the cash shop that make it far easier. Hell, you want a couple examples of pay to win level cap games? Lets talk about a couple from PWE themselves. Ether Saga even had freaking bots you could buy from the cash shop that would play FOR you in "legit" fashion when you simply didn't want to grind yourself.
Or even PWI, when those who leveled faster unlocked some ridiculous overpowered high level abilities that made a lot of Territory Wars completely one sided, in a few cases allowing some guilds to completely take over the TW map which by design was not supposed to be possible.
But do you need XP boosters to hit max level in Neverwinter? No. No boosters required to hit max level with any class with 1 or 2 weeks of casual gameplay.
Oh some will say but there ARE xp boosters rite? RITE? Yes, but do they give players an advantage over those who don't buy them? THAT'S THE REAL QUESTION!
The ONLY WAY this game can be pay to win is if the Astral Diamond market becomes so inflated that only players who buy Zen to trade for AD can buy overpowered items from the AH. Except in a rather odd move from PWE themselves, Astral Diamonds are a limited currency that can't be overfarmed and sold at a ridiculous rate or value.
So please, let me ask you all this. What exactly is Pay to Win about this game?
I didn't start hearing the term Pay to Win until free to play MMOs started becoming popular sometime during WoW's early life when Silkroad online started picking up steam.
I'm convinced that the term has turned into more of a baseless idea that any method that bypasses difficulty is pay to win. This is actually not true at all.
For one, difficulty is subjective, and relative to the players themselves. Secondly, something pay to win is otherwise virtually unachievable to general players.
Some examples of Pay to Win features.
Runes of Magic had a pay to win Cash Shop. Gear was the factor there. Using the cash shop you could rip specific stats off some items, and using the cash shop again you could add these stats to any gear. Again you could use the cash shop to boost all of the stats to the highest tier making your character literally dominate every single person who did not pay into it the way you did, Period. (<--period) Example screenshot in the link below.
http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e369/eFKnight/RAScrnShot_20110903_171625.jpg
THIS IS PAY TO WIN. Is this in Neverwinter? No. In Neverwinter you can PvP casually and end up with a full set of purple gear at level 60, which may not entirely benefit your stat preference. But at that point you are strong enough to run any instance to get the gear you more specifically want. Hell most of this stuff is still dirt cheap on the AH.
Another example of a game that is pay to win is when it has a high level cap that takes a very long time of grinding to achieve, but gives you exp boosters from the cash shop that make it far easier. Hell, you want a couple examples of pay to win level cap games? Lets talk about a couple from PWE themselves. Ether Saga even had freaking bots you could buy from the cash shop that would play FOR you in "legit" fashion when you simply didn't want to grind yourself.
Or even PWI, when those who leveled faster unlocked some ridiculous overpowered high level abilities that made a lot of Territory Wars completely one sided, in a few cases allowing some guilds to completely take over the TW map which by design was not supposed to be possible.
But do you need XP boosters to hit max level in Neverwinter? No. No boosters required to hit max level with any class with 1 or 2 weeks of casual gameplay.
Oh some will say but there ARE xp boosters rite? RITE? Yes, but do they give players an advantage over those who don't buy them? THAT'S THE REAL QUESTION!
The ONLY WAY this game can be pay to win is if the Astral Diamond market becomes so inflated that only players who buy Zen to trade for AD can buy overpowered items from the AH. Except in a rather odd move from PWE themselves, Astral Diamonds are a limited currency that can't be overfarmed and sold at a ridiculous rate or value.
So please, let me ask you all this. What exactly is Pay to Win about this game?
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Post edited by powersoul on
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Comments
Buying Power=p2w
Also how is this game any differant from runes of magic? you say they allowed you to USE the cash shop to apply stats to your gear right? so using the cash shop i can buy wards which allow me to get enchants that nobody that isnt using real world cash is going to have with out it why? because the chance for success is 1% or less to succeed. Its a cleverly disguised p2w mechanic. Now you can argue can grind Ad and buy them but time you'd need to do that would be like half a year or more...and thats assuming you never miss a day of grind, and spend 8+ hours a day grinding AD or working the market like a mad man. It also assumes that people will keep buying AD to put into the market, because if they suddenly stop doing this...then AD quickly gets cycled out and is no AD to spend.
So by your own definition... this game is p2w... on many facets, it just does a good job of masking it. That is my opinion on the matter at least.
Don't have PvE gears? No problem, pay 2 win bro.
Dying at boss fights? No problem, pay 2 win bro.
Don't have a fast mount? No problem, pay 2 move fast bro.
Sure people can farm the gear and items for months and month to finally get what they want, but the fact that you can just spend money and beat the game ez mode in PvE and PvP is what makes this game pay 2 win. When they have no limits on what people can get by paying is what makes this game pay 2 win.
Not really much more to add than this, he's pretty spot on. The minute you try and sell improved anything in the cash shop, be it a 10% movement speed increase, or a 2% chance to apply an effect on hit, you're selling power, it's tiny and in that regard you get folks who convince themselves it doesn't matter, but it doesn't change the fact it's still power, and it's being sold, When the comparative grind to achieve the same level of power is months and months of grinding ad tedium and making sure to maximize your profits by being just as horrid and greedy as the actual monetization, now it's just insult to injury.
And before anyone responds with "no one is forcing you" ec, SAVE IT! I have heard that vapid response a billion times from those with nothing better to argue, you aren't the authority on HOW someone should approach a video game or derive fun from it, at least not unless said deriving of enjoyment, is at the detriment of the enjoyment of other players. And there has always been folks who want to stay competitive in a rpg and do their best towards beating content in a team etc, this game preys on that allegedly and that needs to be discussed, not swept under the rug because it doesn't personally affect your way of thinking.
The wards/respec tokens, eh. The wards you will need. But nothin that a few days of farmin tier 1 while DD is active and sellin on the AH cant fix. Only takes 220k AD for 600zen. Besides there is no WINNING in this game. You win pvp? hell half the games are afked. you win pve? not really winning considering it can be done without payin for anything...
And On a side note.
I have a friend that got the Hero of the north. He lvled at the same speed as me. He bought all his gear at 60, and he sucks at his class. So.. yeah he might have the gear but he aint WINNING ****. Lawl.
Besides, all you kids that complain omg pay 2 win, might as well just spend 15$ a month on zen. Its what you all pay to WoW anyways. And we all know you are from WoW because you are complaining. Eh, never mind, you're probably here because either
A. you dont have a debit card
or
B. Mommy and Daddy stopped your WoW sub so now you're forced to play a free game.