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Need Roll = Selfish, Lazy, and Occasionally Needing for Use
krewlty
Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users Posts: 4 Arc User
Some players are either too selfish or too lazy to use the need/greed/pass system intelligently.
Why aren't class specific rare drops from boss battles restricted to the class that uses said item?
Got the TR boots to drop off of the final boss in Cloak Tower after 4 runs and they were taken by a CW who decided it was easy enough to just roll need and ignore chat. Second time I've seen issues with toxic players causing problems with public group experiences already.
There's also the roll need on everything because the game lets me people. The whole roll system needs an upgrade or makeover.
EDIT: (Suggested Fix)
Restrict the "Need" roll option to characters who can equip the item being rolled on, now or in the future, and who also do not already have a duplicate of that item on their character or in their inventory.
Why aren't class specific rare drops from boss battles restricted to the class that uses said item?
Got the TR boots to drop off of the final boss in Cloak Tower after 4 runs and they were taken by a CW who decided it was easy enough to just roll need and ignore chat. Second time I've seen issues with toxic players causing problems with public group experiences already.
There's also the roll need on everything because the game lets me people. The whole roll system needs an upgrade or makeover.
EDIT: (Suggested Fix)
Restrict the "Need" roll option to characters who can equip the item being rolled on, now or in the future, and who also do not already have a duplicate of that item on their character or in their inventory.
Post edited by krewlty on
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Comments
If they want an identification system, they should have set it up so that there were a set of "static stats" and "random stats". You'd be able to see the static stats, with only the random stats hidden from you until you identified the item. At least then, you'd be able to see if the static stats worked for your character. Still a poor system (you can't see for certain if the item is an upgrade) but certainly a step up from what we have now, where an item could have completely wrong stats for you, and you have no idea until after you roll.
-Travail.
I was in a dungeon yesterday with a rogue that rolled need on everything
AND would stop in the middle of battle to open chests and profession nodes(he opened EVERY profession node)
Unfortunately with pugs, I think you have to
1. Understand that in almost every pug there is someone that rolls need on everything.
2. Roll need on everything yourself so that you at least have a chance of making enough dough to buy the gear that you do need.
3. Understand that if you only roll need on the items you actually need you get a lot less out of the dungeons.
FWIW I only roll need on the items for my character OR any screen that pops up during battle(because I hate that) and I pass on anything else. I also notice that the people that roll need on everything leave the dungeon with a lot more loot than I.
Can someone explain how the need/ greed roll works? I guess pass is pretty obvious. All along I thought need meant it goes to whichever class uses the gear, and greed is to keep; but seems from this post like that's totally the wrong idea??
That being said, the problem with limiting drops to the classes that can use them (so a CW can't roll 'need' on an item that has a TR requirement) is those classes start to feel an entitlement to those items. They know nobody else can really oppose them if they roll need (save for multiple classes in the same dungeon), so they roll need just to guarantee they get the item.
Unfortunately we either put up with that, or we put up with people being able to roll need on anything even if they can't use it.
Minorchord: Items go to whoever has the highest need roll, if no one clicked need it goes to the highest greed roll.
Currently anyone can click need on any item. In a perfect society, only those who plan on equipping the item should click need, everyone else should click greed (unless they flat out do not want the item, then they can pass). Unfortunately, people are too rude to do that most of the time.
You should not be able to roll on rare or better valued loot that specifically states that it is used by another class and NOT your own. This would create a situation where if no one needs the loot, like actually needs it not just rolls need, then greed is the best you can roll. To complete the fix, if you are already holding a duplicate of the item being rolled on, on your character or in your inventory you should only be able to roll greed or pass. And that would make the public grouping experience better instantly.
It's ALWAYS the Rogues and CWs, I wonder what kind of people are playing them.
I agree.....at the very least all items that need to be rolled on should be auto-identified......if you have 3 TR's in a group and a blue dagger drops they are all going to roll need on it unless they are running lower level content because none of them really know whether or not they will need the item, they have to assume that it MIGHT be better than their item, but cannot know until it is identified.
Why do I have to be 6 levels over to compleet dungeons on my own with one healer compenion?
This roll system discurage me to join any group.
What's the problem with that? I don't care if another class wants an item that is utterly useless to me.
That's a very good point as well......white items are already individualized (that is, the white items you see are only seen by you), why can't they maybe reduce the normal mob drop rates of items above white, but each item dropped is dropped for a specific player. Then bosses they could work in rarer drops that are already identified and need to be rolled on.
Giving up all chances of a piece of loot that might sell on the auction house because your character can't use it is okay? I'm not saying either one of the things I said is a lesser evil than the other, but class-specific items shouldn't be reserved for those classes when it comes to rolling unless it is a really rare item that can't be sold to other players.
Only rolling for your own class might work if they allowed the random class to role only if there is no suitable class to make that roll.
Everything else (rings, amulets, belts, etc) that have no class restriction are pretty much free game. The way they designed the game mechanics everyone pretty much needs just about everything unless they already got it (and even then for jewelry there's things like companions which in the case of Ioun Stones are basically 3 more character gear slots). I still use DPS gear on my tank just to keep threat and without it I can't hold threat at all.
Restrict the need roll function to items that are useable and not profession items.
Alas, that seems to be one character attribute a majority of Neverwinter lacks. It's the same struggle we had in WoW, and honestly, enabled dishonor in the game breeds contempt throughout the community. I would love to be able to have that choice of trusting strangers and not be guild-bound. Even if they're forced to be trustworthy.
- greed on everything
- need on what i'm interested in
The result : every time, and i mean every time when we finished the dungeon i had no loot whatsoever. Nothing to sell to make some money, nada.
So now i use these rules :
- if i can use it, even if i don't need it, i roll need.
- if i can't use it, i roll greed.
- if it's a boss loot i don't need/not my class, i pass.
And guess what, i finally have things to sell and can restock my potions with no stress.
But to jump back on the main topic, those guys/girls "who don't care" and would roll need on their moms make a bad name for themselves and are easily spotted. The only thing is that they just don't care.
And don't bring the "rp side of the rogue" on the table. When you pug a dungeon, you should leave this side of rp'ing outside.
Keep this type of rp for when you are with your friends.
Class Specific Blue/Epic :: That class can need on it. Exception being, already have it? Greed so all can share in chance of selling it.
Class Specific Green :: That class can need on it, who cares.
Non-Specific Green or Blue :: Determine if all should need, or greed. If someone is not communicating, all need.
Materials :: Need across the board
Class Specific Blue/Purple if class isn't represented :: All need for chance to sell or use on an alt, companion.
Apparently 80% of the user base lol.. So it is easy to fall into this category I reckon.
Back to subject. I am running 4 classes. It would gratify me to just Need everything and pass it on to my other toon but my generation had morals beaten into them and it just feels wrong. If it ain't green it gets the Shift+2.
Cannot control a PuG and if you are actually catching someone getting a need on a non-class grab then you are paying a lot more attention than I usually do, heh..
Making all Dungeon drops BOP would help, but then if you DID grab it by accident, then you are totally out of luck. Best solution would be to give each player in a group their own loot.
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Comments to -> the Book Binding
Someone has probably answered this by now, but it seems that some people even the ones that started this thread don't know. Need is supposed to be used if an item is an upgrade that you can use. NOT only your character but ALSO your companions. If you don't know what items your companions can use and are just rolling need on everything that drops than you are just greedy and should get kicked from any group that has any sense until you start learning how to play with others and have some respect for the people that are helping you do a dungeon/quest. Greed is for anyone to use and should be used if you have room for items in your inventory, if you know that you don't have much room and are probably going to drop the item anyways if something else comes along that you may be able to use, than you should pass on the stuff that you cannot use.
Its hard to come up with a good fix for actual player greed. If you get reserved loot for drops of you class you would get each purple drops of an item as long as you sold the previous ones so people would end up selling the purple they get since they would get the drop the next time around. Those behaviours are known to the devloppers and i think they prefer to wash their hand off of it. Greedy players get known and you deal with them as you see fit.
I would remove unidentified green from rolls (they are worthless since people usually pass on them) and i would not prevent other players to loot a chest until all items in it are rolled for (it can be annoying to drop behind the group to have your share because someone is letting the loot time out).
As opposed to losing out on an upgrade because some clown wants to auction it off or vendor it? Yeah.
That's the whole point of a "need or greed" system anyway right? The people who can actually use the gear getting priority over those who are just going to sell it? There's plenty of ways to make money without HAMSTER someone out of their upgrades.