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GWF vs TR: Shouldn't size matter?
darkhands
Member Posts: 20 Arc User
So, there is a little something that bugs me about Trickster rogues and Great weapon fighter and it goes a little bit like this:
A GWF swings his blade, cleaves the enemy in twain, and deals 10 damage.
A TR stabs the same enemy and deals 20 damage.
A GWF can swing his Greatsword just as fast if not faster as a TR can stab with two daggers.
A GWF has more mobility than a TR.
What Clownshoe logic is that?
I am not bashing on balance issues here(although, just for the sake of it, TR should deal that kind of damage while backstabbing with sneak attack*foam to the mouth*), but my suspension of disbelief is having its knickers in a proverbial twist.
I mean, yes, purely out of unobstructed momentum, it is possible to swing that fast, but against an armored piece of giant meatbag, it seems rather odd that the blade feels little to no resistance.
What I am trying to say is that GWF feels floaty whereas TR feels heavy. Edit to avoid future non sequitur: THIS IS NOT ABOUT DPS/DAMAGE! It's about the feel of the classes.
What do you think?
A GWF swings his blade, cleaves the enemy in twain, and deals 10 damage.
A TR stabs the same enemy and deals 20 damage.
A GWF can swing his Greatsword just as fast if not faster as a TR can stab with two daggers.
A GWF has more mobility than a TR.
What Clownshoe logic is that?
I am not bashing on balance issues here(although, just for the sake of it, TR should deal that kind of damage while backstabbing with sneak attack*foam to the mouth*), but my suspension of disbelief is having its knickers in a proverbial twist.
I mean, yes, purely out of unobstructed momentum, it is possible to swing that fast, but against an armored piece of giant meatbag, it seems rather odd that the blade feels little to no resistance.
What I am trying to say is that GWF feels floaty whereas TR feels heavy. Edit to avoid future non sequitur: THIS IS NOT ABOUT DPS/DAMAGE! It's about the feel of the classes.
What do you think?
Post edited by darkhands on
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If it was, it could still be possible for a dagger to do more damage than a greatsword in some cases. Heavy armours are good at blocking large weapons, but often have small areas of vulnerability that a well aimed dagger can thrust through.
Again, it's not just about the damage, although it serves a decent feedback, it's about the weight. And on that end, GF actually feels weightier than GWF, swinging his sword with a clear amount of strength behind it whereas GWF seems to swing his like a cheerleading baton.
LOLOLOLOL WHAT.
Played correctly, a GWF will do far more damage than a GF.
With that said, however, you have to remember the gameplay use of these classes. GF is the tank, TR is DPS, CW is Nuker / Disabler, DC is healer / disabler, and GWF is dual DPS/Tank. As such, the GWF is not going to tank as well as a GF, and is not going to deal as much damage as a TR.
Also, unless you want the GWF to be the slowest char on the battlefield, I would advise you not to start being a realism <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>. Did great-swords and the like do amazing amounts of damage in real life? Yes. But their users also couldn't do pirouettes across the battlefield like a whirling dervish.
people need to stop complaining about classes and try to figure out ways to make them work.
i stream my pvp if anyone wants to check me out
twitch.tv/chainerfails
P.S. 2 handed sword like zweihander were made to damage opponents in heavy armor. Dagger were used because can be hidden. A simply chainmail renders the knife useless.
my question to u would be have u even played a GWF at all ??
because if u havnt then u know nothing at all tbh even if u have u sound like u know nothing anyway... the GWF doesn't deal 10 dmg to rogues 20 single hit, the GWF deals 5 dmg with his huge swing compared to the rogues 20 and the rogue attacks waaay faster than the GWF. I have a lvl 60 GWF and I can tell u this, he isn't that great as everyone thinks he is and he lacks dps even when hittin more than 1 mob he doesn't do as much dmg as the rogue does cause they attack faster and yes I have around a lvl 30 rogue to.
lvlin wise the rogue is easy compared to a GWF they are fast at killin things and when they get overwhelmed all they do is stealth to get out of it, I died so many times lvlin my GWF because of the fact he couldn't hit fast enough and his "so called heal" abil does sweet f,a ok dmg but the heal is stupid 22k health and it heals for 3-500 health ... not worth bein a heal at all
Yes. I have tried GWF/TR/GF(and CW, but he's casting spell which is irrelevant), and again, it's not about the balance.
According to this video, a full 4 swing of surestrike takes 2 seconds while every wicked strike takes 1 second: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QAM9_HV6tH4&feature=player_detailpage#t=59s
According to this video, trickster rogue takes about 2,5 second to deal 4 sly flourish attacks:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MTjZDr-UNBQ&feature=player_detailpage#t=52s
According to this video,GF Cleaves takes 1 second per strike: http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=SjxT5Frh46g#t=248s
Conclusion: swinging your sword upward is faster than stabbing someone with a dagger and swinging your large sword horizontally is just as fast as swinging a single-handed sword.
Also, it's not a matter of "realism"(IE real world comparison) since heavy swords historically were mostly unusable in combat or served as ceremonial instrument. It's about "consistency" (IE in-game comparison). Unless your sword is made of polystyrene, and even then due to its length, it should not be as easy to lift as a kitchen knife.
See these for evidence:
Dagger maniability: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1DEl0E6_voM
Zweihander's maniabilityhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YFAKTjOQJwQ
One-handed sword maniability: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5_mCNoqqK0k
PVPer rocking it Solo queue style since the dawn of Neverwinter
1. IBS cant crit higher than crescendo. at 8300 gs my crescendo crits for 12k, IBS 10 and takedown 8.
2. rogues can crit on dazzing strike( or whatever the name) for 17-20k, a 10s CD encounter, and 39k on "something" execution(daily which ignores 100% damage resist).
3. rogues have an unstopable like ability on demand(no need to build resources) as an encounter on top of dodge, stealth and some of the best cc of the game (smoke bomb), also ranged at will.
in short, rogues get better, no, ludicrously more damage than a GWF while having significant more survivability and utility(crit buff).
BUT you can kill some1 as a GWF in pvp IF u blow up all your stuff and it crits and your team doesn't suck and they dont dodge/kite or if they aren't a cleric/GF... and then make a video with 1% of your time at pvp showing how 1337 you are dominating with a gimped class.
Hedas 60 GWF.
Hrod 60 GF.
Alain Loreweaver 60 CW.
Dragon.
No. Please crawl back under your rock. This is not how videogames work.
my issues are:
1: Lack of weight or feel of the weapon, no momentum or recover time, its like he's swinging a stick around...that just doesnt feel right... take a look at tera onlines slayer and beserker... that is how a two weapon fighter should be fighting. Massive weighty swings, huge spikes of damage but slow and steady, and low mobility.
2: Determination: is counter to what a great weapon fighter is all about... this is something i expected on a two weapon fighter, using dual swords. Increase in attack speed dramatically increasing his swing speed do to his natural speed of one handers. It does not fit a great weapon fighter, and it certainly doesnt feel right swinging a sword at 200mph is big enough to cleave a guy in half...
3: DPS or Tank? this seems skewed a bit...early on they are so very squishie...and dont do alot of damage... about level 16-20 start getting better but its like they have no defined role. They can be tanks or dps but not exactally the best at either. CW seem to be better at dealing with adds, and rogues are clearly better at boss dps... GF are better tanks so...where does that leave the GWF? and not saying he cant dps or tank or deal with adds he can do all of those things but just sub-par at all of them.
Alot of work needs down on GWF before he'll interest me at all... its a matter of feel of the class and at first i was enjoying it, but picking it up after playing some tera today i realized just what had been bugging me since i rolled it. Was always some feeling of something wrong with the class and it hit me at that moment...he fights as if he were a fury warrior, rather then a big *** sword wielding <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>.
How does your argument apply to damage vs cloth users? Listen, if there is no attempt at realism at all why even make the daggers do stab animations? Why not just shoot lasers out of them?? The OP is correct. Games with smarter developers like WoW understood this simple concept. Big weapon means slower attack speed, but higher damage per hit. These devs here just be smokin stuff.And the GWF runing at super fast speeds with that weapon and being the MOST mobile class in the game? I mean, come on.
First of all, RELEVANCY! YAY!
Second, Determination is not necessarily that bad(the turbo effect is totally nonsensical, mind, I'm not disagreeing with you on this one), mostly for the "unstoppable" part of "Unstoppable" which, in context of a class that emphasizes on heavier and power-loaded swings, makes a lot of sense considering slower swings means easier to interrupt swings. Therefore, I present the following alternative:
Unstoppable causes a combination of the following effects: "slightly slower attacks(drawback, since the actual one makes no sense)"+"Extra damage"+"Larger area of effects(making the attack harder to dodge despite the drawback)"+"Immunity to CC(making interrupts a non-option)".