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Forums > Home› Neverwinter Discussion › The Foundry

[Question] Quest Progression: Task 1 OR Task 2 OR Task 3, then progress?

roguejd000roguejd000 Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 32
edited May 2013 in The Foundry
Hey all.

I'm having issues with quest progression. I'm trying to find a way to offer one of several methods to progress my quest.

Objective 1:
- Speak to NPC 1

Objective 2:
- Fight encounter 1
- OR Fight encounter 2
- OR Don't fight (as decided by dialogue with NPC 1)

Objective 3:
- Speak to NPC 1

The quest progression tree only seems to allow:
Objective 2:
- Fight encounter 1
- AND Fight encouter 2
- AND Dialogue

Any tips?
Post edited by roguejd000 on

Comments

  • tilt42tilt42 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    You can't do OR-logic in your story. Any such thing must be placed outside the story itself in clever ways. If this is your first attempt to make something with the Foundry, I would suggest that you don't try. It's going to complicate things a lot for you, and the end result will most likely feel clumsy no matter what you do.
  • roguejd000roguejd000 Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 32
    edited May 2013
    More details:

    Objective 1, Speak with NPC 1:
    = Dialogue 1
    - Response 1 = "Good" = No fight
    - Response 2 = "Neutral" = Progress Dialogue: "Neutral" response 1 = No Fight; "Neutral" response 2 = Fight
    - Response 3 = "Evil" = Fight
    = Dialogue 1 Objective Complete

    Objective 2:
    = IF "Dialogue 1" = Response Good, THEN progess to Objective 3
    = IF "Dialogue 1" = Response Neutral No Fight, THEN progress to Objective 3
    = IF "Dialogue 1" = Response Neutral Fight, THEN spawn encounter
    = IF "Dialogue 1" = Response Evil, THEN spawn encounter

    Objective 3, Speak with NPC 1
    = Dialogue 2

    I'm aware of how to show visibility of encounters to "Dialogue Prompt Reached", but I need NPC 1 to despawn and respawn properly.
  • roguejd000roguejd000 Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 32
    edited May 2013
    tilt42 wrote: »
    You can't do OR-logic in your story. Any such thing must be placed outside the story itself in clever ways. If this is your first attempt to make something with the Foundry, I would suggest that you don't try. It's going to complicate things a lot for you, and the end result will most likely feel clumsy no matter what you do.

    That's what I feared. I suppose I can just tweak encounters to show visibility on specific dialogue prompts. I'll have to make use of custom item turn-ins, no quest markers, and a vague quest objective to progress in that manner.
  • coanunncoanunn Member, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 368 Bounty Hunter
    edited May 2013
    Unfortunately the foundry is a VERY linear LEGO path. You can not do branching "OR" logic within it nor can you even do a "KILL X of Y" and supply the player with a dungeon full of X to choose which among them to kill. To set an objective you must set it VERY specifically. This makes allowing players to capture prisoners as an alternative, talking the mad man down from his master plan, and so many other rich rewarding options simply impossible.

    You can do story driven conflict resolution, but your options end at specific points. There are a few ways to use the branching dialog to do some interesting things but so far the trigger system does not allow you to add bonus objectives, alternate options, spawn alternative or extra encounters, etc.

    The best thing I can recommend is to include OOC blurbs about the parts you are unable to do within the editor to let the player know what would have happened had you been capable of doing so. While this is not the BEST outcome it at least allows you to tell your story without having to resort to "hit him in the face to win".
    Do you crave a good old fashioned dungeon crawl? One where the dungeon tells it's own story? The Dungeon Delves campaign is just for you! Start with my first release: NW-DQF4T7QYH Any cave can lead to adventure!
  • saurecsaurec Member Posts: 9 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    I spent all of yesterday evening trying to figure this out, but no matter how I approached it I couldn't make it work.

    This honestly requires Cryptic to add these things to the editor:
    - AND/OR-operation switch for each type of trigger
    - The ability to use each separate dialogue outcome as a (separate) trigger event, rather than just reaching a dialogue prompt - I don't want enemies spawning when I'm still talking to the NPC, nor do I want enemies to spawn regardless of the choice I make.
    - The ability to create branching quest objectives with AND/OR switches

    As it is right now, it's far too limited.
  • kamaliiciouskamaliicious Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    saurec wrote: »
    I spent all of yesterday evening trying to figure this out, but no matter how I approached it I couldn't make it work.

    This honestly requires Cryptic to add these things to the editor:
    - AND/OR-operation switch for each type of trigger
    - The ability to use each separate dialogue outcome as a (separate) trigger event, rather than just reaching a dialogue prompt - I don't want enemies spawning when I'm still talking to the NPC, nor do I want enemies to spawn regardless of the choice I make.
    - The ability to create branching quest objectives with AND/OR switches

    As it is right now, it's far too limited.
    Good luck, OR was one of the most requested features during Foundry beta.
  • tilt42tilt42 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    It's also one of the most complex ones, I suspect. Even so, if we ever get this functionality it will do wonders to expand the types of quests that can be made.
  • lantoaster1lantoaster1 Member Posts: 1 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    tilt42 wrote: »
    It's also one of the most complex ones, I suspect. Even so, if we ever get this functionality it will do wonders to expand the types of quests that can be made.

    If you want to do "MultiChoice" Quests, you need to (as previously stated) do it Outside of your normal Quest Progression.

    The More Complex your Multiple Choices are, the More Complex your "Scripting" needs to be.
    You can "Link" or make a "Go To" Dialog option. You just need to Drag the Line conection your Answers to another DialogOption. (Sorry if I sound a little bit confusing, but i dont know how to explain this better).

    With this and a little bit Thinking you can create Flexible Dialogs, and even Multiple quest Pathes.

    I just build upon the Basics that you know how to Despawn and Spawn things. To Create an "OR" systimt out of the only "AND" system the Foundry uses, you need to use serveral Small Dialog Options wich you can read out to figure out What Happens.

    For Example, 3 Choices:

    First: No Encounter, NPC Despawns:
    First, you lead to a Dialog Option, i call it: "No Encounter".
    Then you lead it to the DialogOption: "Despawn"

    Then you set your NPC Dissapearance to: "On DialogPrompt: Despawn"

    Second: Encounter, NPC Despawns:
    First, You lead your Dialog to the Option "Encounter"
    Then to the Option: "Despawn"

    Then you set the Visibility of your Encounter to: "On Dialog Prompt: Despawn" AND "On Dialog Prompt: "Encounter"

    Third: No Encounter, NPC doesnt Despawn
    You dont lead to Either of those, but to another one, for now call it: "Solved"

    Now, to not let the Player "Replay" the Dialog, you need to Make a "First" AnswerChoice wich only works if you completed NONE of the 3 Dialog Prompts. So the NPC Dialog is Locked.

    I Hope this Helps.
    Sadly, its really Complicated to Explain for me. But this should work (I tested it already with only Two Choices, and it works Great.)
  • raphaeldisantoraphaeldisanto Member Posts: 402 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    This is definitely how to do it. You just need to:

    a) keep track of where your dialogue prompts point and which ones are being used as triggers

    and

    b) remember that you can't ever make them tied to "official" quest objectives in the quest itself.

    Also, remember, Dialogue Prompts/Responses that happen in conversations that are Quest objectives CANNOT be restricted in this way. There is no way, within an Objective Conversation to set a PC response to show up based on another Dialogue Prompt. You can only do this in Contact Conversations.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • saurecsaurec Member Posts: 9 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    kamaliicious wrote: »
    Good luck, OR was one of the most requested features during Foundry beta.

    Wow, I didn't know that - makes this issue a lot worse than it appeared to be. Why on earth would they ignore something as fundamental as an OR-operation anyway..?

    I'd rather pick up making maps for Warcraft 3 again as it stands right now, that game had a truly solid editor - The Foundry has a lot of potential, but nearly none of it appears to have made it into the game.
  • roguejd000roguejd000 Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 32
    edited May 2013
    I'm working the details out for my own workaround:

    Objective 1: Speak to NPC 1
    = Dialogue 1
    - Response 1 = "Good" = No fight
    - Response 2 = "Neutral" = Progress Dialogue: "Neutral" response 1 = No Fight; "Neutral" response 2 = Fight
    - Response 3 = "Evil" = Fight
    = Dialogue 1 Objective Complete

    WORKAROUND: (Servers Down. Will test when they're back up)
    Move directly to Objective 2:
    - Use Vague Description, no Waypoint set. E.G.. "Find out Information about NPC 1"
    - Objective Type: Interaction
    - Requirement: Author-Created Item

    Method of obtaining Objective Item:
    - - Since there's no objective markers, and a vague objective description, Player can speak with NPCs in the area; each could give "Tasks" that use game mechanics. (Hence, the branching story) Several NPCs = Several "Tasks" with a reward of Author Created item.

    TASK:
    - - Maybe one of the NPCs require the player to Interact with an item; Item has several interaction dialogue options; class specific, etc.
    - - Maybe one of the NPCs require player to Interact with an item only visible / interactable to specific classes.
    - - NPC's dialogue option for "turn-in" is only visible if player posses other item.

    Handling Fight / no Fight scenario
    = Spawn Encounter on "Dialogue Prompt Reached" = "Response Evil"; Despawn: Never
    = Spawn Encounter on "Dialogue Prompt Reached" = "Response Neutral, Fight"; Despawn: Never

    I don't know if it will work. I'll report back if it does.
  • forien69forien69 Member Posts: 144 Bounty Hunter
    edited May 2013
    roguejd000 wrote: »
    More details:

    Objective 1, Speak with NPC 1:
    = Dialogue 1
    - Response 1 = "Good" = No fight
    - Response 2 = "Neutral" = Progress Dialogue: "Neutral" response 1 = No Fight; "Neutral" response 2 = Fight
    - Response 3 = "Evil" = Fight
    = Dialogue 1 Objective Complete

    Objective 2:
    = IF "Dialogue 1" = Response Good, THEN progess to Objective 3
    = IF "Dialogue 1" = Response Neutral No Fight, THEN progress to Objective 3
    = IF "Dialogue 1" = Response Neutral Fight, THEN spawn encounter
    = IF "Dialogue 1" = Response Evil, THEN spawn encounter

    Objective 3, Speak with NPC 1
    = Dialogue 2

    I'm aware of how to show visibility of encounters to "Dialogue Prompt Reached", but I need NPC 1 to despawn and respawn properly.

    You can do it. But you CAN'T use objectives. CAN'T!

    1) Set objective to - let's say - open doors (or ANYTHING after this story you can achieve having a specific item).
    1.1) Place box
    1.2) Place doors
    1.3) Go to items and create some key
    1.3) Make doors visible when player has that key (and make them consume it)
    1.4) Make box interactable and drop key
    2) Make first dialog (via NPC settings -> advanced dialog editor) and remember to add NPCs prompt after every branching response
    2.1) You can also make one more prompt and redirect every final prompts to it (for 4.3)
    3) Place encounters you want to be.
    4) Making branching:
    4.1) Encounter 1 - set "appear when -> dialog prompt -> select prompt" (you will now see why NPC has to say sth after response)
    4.2) Encounter 2 - as above
    4.3) NPC 1 again - now, set every old responses to disappear when propt reached from 2.1
    4.4) Write more responses with visibility as you want (without fightin, fighting with this group or that)
    4.5) After talking redirect ALL there new branches to one prompt saying like "Farewell, adventurer"
    5) Make box visible after reaching "Farewell" prompt.
    6) Profit

    Congratulations! You just made branching story with different options to complete objective "open the doors"!
    Please play, review, rate and give me feedback on these quests:
    NW-DGYDZ7EAL - Khelgar's Treasure Cave
    NW-DTULANXJC - Khelgar's Hideout
    Thread with suggestions for Foundry
  • roguejd000roguejd000 Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 32
    edited May 2013
    lantoaster1 wrote: »
    If you want to do "MultiChoice" Quests, you need to (as previously stated) do it Outside of your normal Quest Progression.

    The More Complex your Multiple Choices are, the More Complex your "Scripting" needs to be.
    You can "Link" or make a "Go To" Dialog option. You just need to Drag the Line conection your Answers to another DialogOption. (Sorry if I sound a little bit confusing, but i dont know how to explain this better).

    With this and a little bit Thinking you can create Flexible Dialogs, and even Multiple quest Pathes.

    I just build upon the Basics that you know how to Despawn and Spawn things. To Create an "OR" systimt out of the only "AND" system the Foundry uses, you need to use serveral Small Dialog Options wich you can read out to figure out What Happens.

    For Example, 3 Choices:

    First: No Encounter, NPC Despawns:
    First, you lead to a Dialog Option, i call it: "No Encounter".
    Then you lead it to the DialogOption: "Despawn"

    Then you set your NPC Dissapearance to: "On DialogPrompt: Despawn"

    Second: Encounter, NPC Despawns:
    First, You lead your Dialog to the Option "Encounter"
    Then to the Option: "Despawn"

    Then you set the Visibility of your Encounter to: "On Dialog Prompt: Despawn" AND "On Dialog Prompt: "Encounter"

    Third: No Encounter, NPC doesnt Despawn
    You dont lead to Either of those, but to another one, for now call it: "Solved"

    Now, to not let the Player "Replay" the Dialog, you need to Make a "First" AnswerChoice wich only works if you completed NONE of the 3 Dialog Prompts. So the NPC Dialog is Locked.

    I Hope this Helps.
    Sadly, its really Complicated to Explain for me. But this should work (I tested it already with only Two Choices, and it works Great.)

    This is very helpful. I'll look into this when it's back up. It seems to be very helpful for encounter spawning.
  • roguejd000roguejd000 Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 32
    edited May 2013
    forien69 wrote: »
    You can do it. But you CAN'T use objectives. CAN'T!

    1) Set objective to - let's say - open doors (or ANYTHING after this story you can achieve having a specific item).
    1.1) Place box
    1.2) Place doors
    1.3) Go to items and create some key
    1.3) Make doors visible when player has that key (and make them consume it)
    1.4) Make box interactable and drop key
    2) Make first dialog (via NPC settings -> advanced dialog editor) and remember to add NPCs prompt after every branching response
    2.1) You can also make one more prompt and redirect every final prompts to it (for 4.3)
    3) Place encounters you want to be.
    4) Making branching:
    4.1) Encounter 1 - set "appear when -> dialog prompt -> select prompt" (you will now see why NPC has to say sth after response)
    4.2) Encounter 2 - as above
    4.3) NPC 1 again - now, set every old responses to disappear when propt reached from 2.1
    4.4) Write more responses with visibility as you want (without fightin, fighting with this group or that)
    4.5) After talking redirect ALL there new branches to one prompt saying like "Farewell, adventurer"
    5) Make box visible after reaching "Farewell" prompt.
    6) Profit

    Congratulations! You just made branching story with different options to complete objective "open the doors"!

    THIS is absolute gold! I'll most certainly be giving this a shot.
  • saurecsaurec Member Posts: 9 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    lantoaster1 wrote: »
    Then you set the Visibility of your Encounter to: "On Dialog Prompt: Despawn" AND "On Dialog Prompt: "Encounter"

    Despite my earlier pessimism regarding this whole topic, this approach solved my biggest problem and allowed me to give the player a choice of walking away, killing the guards, or being allowed to pass without a fight. Thanks a lot!

    There's one issue that I can't seem to override still though; If the player cancels instead of finishing the last dialogue prompt, the quest doesn't advance. Is there any way to enforce this while still allowing for the multiple choices?

    If not, the only thing I can do is probably to put a warning in the quest description.
  • tilt42tilt42 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    Once a player picks an option, set any other options to invisible. This way he can still only pick the same one when he repeats the dialogue.
  • saurecsaurec Member Posts: 9 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    tilt42 wrote: »
    Once a player picks an option, set any other options to invisible. This way he can still only pick the same one when he repeats the dialogue.

    Yeah that'll work - beats having to restart the quest. It's gonna look odd though - you'll end up talking to sparkles in the middle of a corridor x)
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