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Forums > Home› Neverwinter Discussion › The Foundry

Is it poor form to kill an adventurer purposefully?

hercul33thercul33t Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 190 Bounty Hunter
edited May 2013 in The Foundry
I want to put in a failure state where the adventurer gets nuked.

Is this generally poor form? Do you think I will earn more 1 star ratings for my map that already gets reviews like "DON'T WASTE YOUR TIME PLAYING"? lol


It's going to cost the player 1 medical kit or 3 minutes of time.
Dr. Herc trilogy NWS-DHDPDVTMA
Post edited by hercul33t on

Comments

  • jkparkjkpark Member Posts: 56
    edited May 2013
    If it's not part of an exceedingly awesome story, then yes. People don't want to be penalised for playing your map.
    JKPark's Foundry Quests
    A Friendly Reminder (NW-DAQN7H5GO) - Short, solo, story-driven quest.
  • tilt42tilt42 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    It could even be seen as griefing.

    From a game design perspective, you should "never" punish your players. Reward them for good decisions instead. Outright killing players because they make a "wrong" choice is a sign of a bad dungeon master.
  • kamaliiciouskamaliicious Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    tilt42 wrote: »
    It could even be seen as griefing.

    From a game design perspective, you should "never" punish your players. Reward them for good decisions instead. Outright killing players because they make a "wrong" choice is a sign of a bad dungeon master.
    You've never played Paranoia, have you?
  • lanessar13lanessar13 Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, Silverstars Posts: 8 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    kamaliicious wrote: »
    You've never played Paranoia, have you?

    I have. Deaths were for comedic value, because character Joe2 was respawning into the game nearly instantly.

    How about Hackmaster?

    "Whaddya mean I died during character creation??!??"
  • hercul33thercul33t Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 190 Bounty Hunter
    edited May 2013
    Thanks for the suggestions, guys. I've decided to just make things a little harder if you decide to be a jerk in dialogue.

    A slap on the wrist.
    Dr. Herc trilogy NWS-DHDPDVTMA
  • wuhsinwuhsin Banned Users Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    hercul33t wrote: »
    Thanks for the suggestions, guys. I've decided to just make things a little harder if you decide to be a jerk in dialogue.

    A slap on the wrist.

    Yay for consequences!
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • tfangeltfangel Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    wuhsin wrote: »
    Yay for consequences!

    I have no problem if it's part of a decent story, but one foundry quest i ran went fine solo, a bit tough at times, then for no reason spawned quite the stacked encounter, several almost boss level mobs, all attacking at once. Felt cheap and annoying.
  • wuhsinwuhsin Banned Users Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    tfangel wrote: »
    I have no problem if it's part of a decent story, but one foundry quest i ran went fine solo, a bit tough at times, then for no reason spawned quite the stacked encounter, several almost boss level mobs, all attacking at once. Felt cheap and annoying.

    I think a lot of UGC publishers are still very unfamiliar with the encounters, so you'll probably come across some impossible stacked mobs in a lot of quests for a while. When play-testing my first quest I found I had made the same mistake because I underestimated a few undead units, like the hulks, and deathlock wights. Ended up having to do a serious nerf to the final boss' mob. Overall I don't recommend stacking mobs unless you take a lone elite and add some minions.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • hercul33thercul33t Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 190 Bounty Hunter
    edited May 2013
    wuhsin wrote: »
    I think a lot of UGC publishers are still very unfamiliar with the encounters, so you'll probably come across some impossible stacked mobs in a lot of quests for a while. When play-testing my first quest I found I had made the same mistake because I underestimated a few undead units, like the hulks, and deathlock wights. Ended up having to do a serious nerf to the final boss' mob. Overall I don't recommend stacking mobs unless you take a lone elite and add some minions.


    That's part of my problem. I don't have the clvl to properly test for difficulty.

    Some of my reviews are like this

    - too hard
    - too easy

    - too long
    - too short

    - Best map ever
    - Worst map ever

    So I can't really go by what the random playerbase is saying lol
    Dr. Herc trilogy NWS-DHDPDVTMA
  • angryspriteangrysprite Member Posts: 4,982 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    I have this scenrio going on, but the way I do it is to give the player a choice, make it clear that the wrong choice "could mean certain death" - if that choice is made then a real horde of nasties shows up. it is highly unlikely the player will survive the onslaught. However, the player DOES have at least a slight chance in hell to survive.

    Doing it this way the player *knows* their "death" is a consequence to their actions and decisions. In other words: it's not an abush surprise death. As long as you make it clear through story and give the player the slimmest chance to actually survive the "punishment" I think it's okay. Hell, many in not most players would likely rave about the experience you give them as a great challenge (both the decision making process and the result if it turns out that way).
  • hercul33thercul33t Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 190 Bounty Hunter
    edited May 2013
    angrysprite wrote: »
    I have this scenrio going on, but the way I do it is to give the player a choice, make it clear that the wrong choice "could mean certain death" - if that choice is made then a real horde of nasties shows up. it is highly unlikely the player will survive the onslaught. However, the player DOES have at least a slight chance in hell to survive.

    Doing it this way the player *knows* their "death" is a consequence to their actions and decisions. In other words: it's not an abush surprise death. As long as you make it clear through story and give the player the slimmest chance to actually survive the "punishment" I think it's okay. Hell, many in not most players would likely rave about the experience you give them as a great challenge (both the decision making process and the result if it turns out that way).

    Yes, I have one dialogue where you can just talk normal to someone, he will feed you information that develops the story. If you decide to tell him something like "I haven't got time old man" it can lead into a shouting match where the old man is telling you not to yell to which you can reply something like "YOU CAN'T TELL ME WHAT TO DO!", which attracts the demons who have been after you.

    Still needs tweaking, but otherwise if you listen to the story the door will open without any encounter and the player none the wiser that he could have been ambushed there.
    Dr. Herc trilogy NWS-DHDPDVTMA
  • angryspriteangrysprite Member Posts: 4,982 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    hercul33t wrote: »
    Yes, I have one dialogue where you can just talk normal to someone, he will feed you information that develops the story. If you decide to tell him something like "I haven't got time old man" it can lead into a shouting match where the old man is telling you not to yell to which you can reply something like "YOU CAN'T TELL ME WHAT TO DO!", which attracts the demons who have been after you.

    Still needs tweaking, but otherwise if you listen to the story the door will open without any encounter and the player none the wiser that he could have been ambushed there.

    Yes - I think that's acceptable - totally. Because it's not an "ambush" and it doesn't feel like griefing. You give the player plenty of opportunity to backtrack and if she doesn't - then "~UNLEASH THE HOUNDS!~" LOL

    And even then - as long as it tough and not a tital-wave obviously designed to intentionally not give the player a chance in hell - then it's fair game. And I genuinely believe you'd get positive reviews for it. Some players love those kind of challenges and other players will appreciate actual consequences, I believe.

    Of course there always will be the "this quest sucks, so one-star with no review!!!1!!11!" :)
  • borysthenisborysthenis Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 1 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    lanessar13 wrote: »
    I have. Deaths were for comedic value, because character Joe2 was respawning into the game nearly instantly.

    How about Hackmaster?

    "Whaddya mean I died during character creation??!??"

    Hackmaster. Fft. We were dying during character creation in Traveller back in '79. Good times. Good, frustrating times.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

    "I had the ambition to not only go farther than man had gone before,
    but to go as far as it was possible to go"
    --Captain James Cook
  • chronomancerchronomancer Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 1,223
    edited May 2013
    Part of being a good GM is to give the player a challenging adventure without being excessive. Just as the adage of old school game design goes "Challenge must be equal to the reward." Challenge doesn't mean griefing them and making them die over and over. Challenging means it can be done with some effort.
  • waeolwenwaeolwen Member Posts: 59 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    What you could probably do, instead of kill the player, is this...

    1. Bad dialog choices
    2. Enemy costumed NPCs spawn within view of player in the dialog screen
    3. Fade to Black
    4. "Revive" interact with the "Fade to Black" piece

    It would give the feeling (if the dialog was correct) that the player had been knocked out/"killed" without actually killing them.
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