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Can Clerics DPS in this game?
silvawind
Member Posts: 4 Arc User
I am playing this game with my wife. Whilst I have lots of MMO experience and am quite a competent player, she lacks a bit of confidence in group play, and always has, although she is making a real effort this time around to 'put herself out there'.
Look, she isn't the best player to have ever lived and has a lot to learn, especially in this game which has a high skill cap.
She has chosen a Cleric, as she always chooses the Cleric archetype in our previous MMOs, although back then she chose them because they typically make the safest/sturdiest solo classes with decent armour and self-heals.
This time around though she has been participating in dungeons/skirmishes and PvP and I feel she would be a lot more relaxed about the whole thing if she could DPS, as it's typically easier, and she's less in the limelight, held less responsible and all that.
So, my question to you Clerics is: Is Cleric a viable DPS in groups? I've heard different things, nothing substantial though.
Tbh, with potions, our experiences so far suggest healing isn't as important in this game as others, but does that change at end-game instances?
Will she be EXPECTED and NEEDED to heal? Or can I spec her into a decent DPS that will be accepted in groups? Or should I maybe get her to re-roll a Wiz?
Any advice would be hugely appreciated by both of us.
Thanks x
Look, she isn't the best player to have ever lived and has a lot to learn, especially in this game which has a high skill cap.
She has chosen a Cleric, as she always chooses the Cleric archetype in our previous MMOs, although back then she chose them because they typically make the safest/sturdiest solo classes with decent armour and self-heals.
This time around though she has been participating in dungeons/skirmishes and PvP and I feel she would be a lot more relaxed about the whole thing if she could DPS, as it's typically easier, and she's less in the limelight, held less responsible and all that.
So, my question to you Clerics is: Is Cleric a viable DPS in groups? I've heard different things, nothing substantial though.
Tbh, with potions, our experiences so far suggest healing isn't as important in this game as others, but does that change at end-game instances?
Will she be EXPECTED and NEEDED to heal? Or can I spec her into a decent DPS that will be accepted in groups? Or should I maybe get her to re-roll a Wiz?
Any advice would be hugely appreciated by both of us.
Thanks x
Post edited by silvawind on
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Comments
Overall everyone in a group will expect the Cleric to mainly heal.
The other cleric archetype in 4'th edition Battle Cleric is more of a DPS'er (mostly melee though)
It's a fact that choosing to play a DC that your wife will be the absolute ultimate aggro magnet for adds,this is NOT optional it is how threat works in game and building a DC with this in mind will serve her well.
If you are both playing pugs or even solo/tandem,then I would strongly suggest as much disruptive skills as possible,buy/borrow/beg for recovery and critical chance on items and take passives/feats/skills that give action points and recovery +.You want to cast as many disruptive spells as much as humanly possible because mobs on their back or in the air don't deal damage,they take damage.
As your wife levels up she'll find damage mitigation and avoidance far superior to healing and fast cooldowns with high critical chance superior to slow higher damage casting.
She'll also find that just like all other classes that healing pots are her best friend,use them wisely.
And probably the best advice I can give is do NOT rely or let other party members rely on her own healing abilities to stay alive in dungeons,reliance on DC healing will only bring disappointment.
Yeah, I've done a bunch of skirmishes now with my level 13 Cleric, and I've had similar results. Cleric DPS in this game is... different. The more DPS you do (such as it is), the more healing you do as well, which takes some getting used to. My only real complaint so far (other than the fact that there's no melee Cleric class) is that DCs seem to be aggro magnets, but can't wear heavy armor. As a result, I have gotten very proficient with Dodge
The beginning levels and leveling process is anecdotal at best with regards to a classes ability - at this stage in the games life there is a massive learning process for every player, everything is subject to change when the knowledge is accumulated.
I've rolled a DC myself, and thoroughly enjoying it - you can go for a damage dominant build, but that would be limiting yourself in my opinion as I feel it is apparant that we are not solely to focus on healing or damage only - it is the total sum of all we can do which is the benefit of having us, we offer respectable damage, off tanking with healing and utility.
While your wife has traditionally played the healer role, it is a different animal in this game, there is a lot more to it and requires a high degree of focus and ability - the thing to remember if you queue for content, is that the queuing system tries to place you with 1 of each class, the group is going to see a cleric and expect you to be a cleric in the broadest sense of the term - if you've built with a focus around damage they may not be as understanding.
That isn't to say it is not possible, but you've said your wife has low confidence/not the best player which can go against fulfilling the role in a damage centric build.
If she is the only cleric in a group people are absolutely going to expect her to heal. However if there are 2 clerics in a group she can go hard DPS and no one will really mind. Though getting people to agree to a 2 cleric group can be tricky at times. Actually with 2 clerics both can go more hybrid DPS/heal and do fine. There just needs to be 1 Astral Shield between them.
I'd suggest you make friends with another cleric and another 2 people who are okay with a 2 cleric group and go nuts. Your runs might be a tiny bit slower than other group comps but it will be a LOT easier if she just takes repurpose soul for a bit of extra healing going around, even easier if she runs things like Forgemaster's Flame and Sun Burst, both can have a place on a DPS bar.
What you will do, however, is a respectable amount of DPS (much higher than the dedicated healing cleric, about competitive with a not-very-good GWF) and almost as much healing as the dedicated healer cleric. Last T2 run I was in, the rogue did ~8 million damage over the course of the dungeon, I did ~5.5 million. The dedicated healer cleric healed ~2.5 million, I healed ~1.8 million.
The discussion then becomes whether the party is better off sacrificing survivability (two Astral Shields stacked makes dying pretty hard) for DPS (some bosses are a hard DPS check, where single target DPS is essential for wiping things out). If yes, they don't want your mediocre DPS as a DPS cleric, they want a proper DPS class.
Edit: I haven't run the numbers to take account of cooldowns, but I use a rotation of Break the Spirit, Forgemaster's, and Daunting Light, with Lance of Faith and Brand of the Sun as At-Wills. Astral Seal could be put in there for more healing and/or if you constantly need to move, so you can't get the third hit from Lance of Faith.
Their strengths: AOE (better than wizards IMO), defense reduction buffs, versatility in having both sustained and burst damage
Weakness: If the instance doesn't have a lot of grouped mobs good rogues should beat you, the damage boosting buffs, like wizard buffs, help not only you but the rogues as well (good for team but inflates the numbers for perception)
If you want to damage there are 3 powers you should always have: Daunting light, Lance of faith, and the most OP cleric power Brand of the sun. Brand of the sun is an insane instant cast DoT but due to targeting and its huge reliance on mental management, not that easy to use. I think proper use of this power is what separates good cleric DPS from bad, as I've never seen another cleric even come close to a decent rogue.
Play aggressively, don't f***ing use sun burst, and stack your DoTs on anything in sight.
I'd be interested to see a video of how you accurately distribute Brand of the Sun on mobs that have been grouped together for AE damage - it's a tricky business. Especially since you imply that you can out-DPS rogues (maybe I'm misinterpreting).
Building a cleric to buff/debuff ends fights quicker and safer.
With a bit of practice, you can even swap your slotted powers on-the-fly based on how your team is performing. We have enough skill points to support both play styles, and the difference between paragon feats isn't nearly as dramatic in PvP as it is in PvE.
Sure some rogues will take the first place some times, but if you go Crit Cleric, man not only the heals are awesome, but your encounter and daily skills hits really hard.
Dont know about the late game, but for now i dont even use potions.
I've choosen power/crit, but im thinking recover might be better, dunno yet
Have fun, DC is awesome!
The DCs damage comes from having a variety of different types of attacks,attacks that heal do damage,attacks that crowd control do damage,attacks that single target DPS (obviously) do damage..If you always keep in mind that a DC is not a one trick pony you'll do fine on the damage scoreboard.
If DPS is all you're looking for then a DC probably isn't the class you were looking for.
Jack of all trades master of none,surely better than a master of one. =P
From my experience, healers are only proper damage dealers when they clearly have separate skill trees for healing/damage.
I am top damage in most skirmishes and dungeons I do. And I honestly can't remember the last time I lost to an equally geared [Insert class here].
I usually queue with a heal cleric though.
On the basis of raw damage, we don't lose to anyone, at least not at level 47. Can't say at 60.
What we bring over other classes? Strong AoE damage, good single target damage, an AoE root or debuff, a 50% uptime 10% defence debuff, a 5% damage and crit reduction debuff, almost permanent hallowed ground buff for the group with another devoted cleric, strong emergency healing with forgemasters flame, temporary healing buff for anyone near the target we are hitting, the list goes on really.
We may not have a CC of a control wizard, but we bring plenty of other things to a group while still doing competitive damage.
All the people here saying you shouldn't do it probably haven't tried it
Could it all change at 60? Maybe. But until then I'm going to continue topping damage in skirmishes and dungeons :P
I'm not sure about level 60 epic dungeons, but I just ran Idris on my 38 healing spec cleric doing DPS (another cleric joined the PUG and wanted to heal). Even though my feats aren't geared towards damage, I was still second in damage dealt (just behind the rogue and way above the third spot...wizard I think). But I was working pretty hard to pump out a constant stream of damage, probably about as much as when I'm healing.
So yeah, it's doable at least while leveling, but she'll need a group make up that'll allow her to DPS instead of heal. And as I'm getting higher level, I'm seeing less and less clerics, but more and more rogues and wizards. I doubt I'll run into another 2-cleric PUG again.