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Forums > Home› Neverwinter Discussion › General Discussion (PC)

Level scaling

pizzamuraipizzamurai Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 0 Arc User
edited May 2013 in General Discussion (PC)
I really hate to reference MMOs. I honestly do. City of heroes and Guild Wars 2. What do these two MMOs have in common? (Or had in common... RIP Paragon. Oh, and hi Statesman ;) Still love you guys.)

They both had -fantastic- ways of finding friends and grouping with them -regardless- of level.

City of Heroes took the "Well, we'll just gimp you" approach. I had no issues with this, as I could still play with my friends on a regular basis and not have to worry about outleveling them, or outgearing them or... whatever. Soon as I teamed with a level 4 friend, I was right back to brawl, fire blast, and my handy dandy nemesis staff! Or, if we felt like it, I could bring him up to level 50 and he could pretend to be a HAMSTER with his upgraded brawl and one attack. Either way, we could still play together and much fun was had.

Guild Wars 2 took that to the next level. Even when you weren't teamed, you were level scaling down if you went into a lowbie zone. Unlike city of heroes, you could still use any power you wanted free of care, and it did make you a good bit more powerful than other lowbies, but it's not like you were competing with them. You were having fun, and playing with friends.

Enter neverwinter. I can't express the sadness I had when I sat in a queue for 2 hours while questing, only to get just one more level and be bumped right out of that queue because I had just out leveled it. Or constantly saying to friends "Ah... sorry, I don't have a character in that level range".

This game needs level scaling of some sort. Put a collar on me and call me a Gimp Rogue if you have to, or a Controlled Wizard, or a Somewhat Devoted Cleric, or a Not So Great Weapon Fighter (I'll stop, I can do this all day). Whatever you have to do to make this happen, do it. I'd rather be severely gimped than not be able to play with people because of my or their levels.

Not only that, but even solo players miss out on entire skirmishes and dungeons because of massively long queue times, either simply not having the time in the day to wait the hours long queues out, outleveling them (because of such a quick leveling pace through questing), or both. I didn't do a single dungeon from lair of the mad dragon onwards simply because I out leveled them faster than it took for the queues to pop, and that was with simple questing.

So, pretty please, with whipped cream and a cherry on top... give us some level scaling.
Post edited by pizzamurai on

Comments

  • ninjajoeninjajoe Member, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 20 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    Hate to tell you this isn't guild wars 2.
  • xen1912xen1912 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 309 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    People are so mis-informed. I can get any of my level 60 friends to help my alt with a low level dungeon to kill the boss quickly. you just need to know the location of the door. cant do that for skirmishes but you can do that for every single dungeon in the game. if you enter manually with a pre-made group there is no queue times either. very simple.

  • pizzamuraipizzamurai Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    ninjajoe wrote: »
    Hate to tell you this isn't guild wars 2.
    Waiting for your point.
    xen1912 wrote: »
    People are so mis-informed. I can get any of my level 60 friends to help my alt with a low level dungeon to kill the boss quickly. you just need to know the location of the door. cant do that for skirmishes but you can do that for every single dungeon in the game. if you enter manually with a pre-made group there is no queue times either. very simple.
    Steamrolling a level 20 dungeon as a level 60 is not the same as being scaled down to level 20 and having a challenging and fun dungeon run.
  • xen1912xen1912 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 309 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    well if you want challenge and fun, don't bring a level 60, my point being you can at any level do any dungeon if you miss it. to your liking just be a few levels off. you don't miss a single quest or dungeon or skirmish if you stick to questing. sure it sucks, but that's how its designed. if you want to enjoy all aspects of the game, make one char for questing and the other for questing and foundry, or whatever you like.

  • pizzamuraipizzamurai Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    xen1912 wrote: »
    well if you want challenge and fun, don't bring a level 60, my point being you can at any level do any dungeon if you miss it. to your liking just be a few levels off. you don't miss a single quest or dungeon or skirmish if you stick to questing. sure it sucks, but that's how its designed. if you want to enjoy all aspects of the game, make one char for questing and the other for questing and foundry, or whatever you like.

    "Sure it sucks"
    ^ This right here sums up my point.

    With level scaling, there is no "sure it sucks". You get the best of both worlds. I really don't see why you're arguing against a feature like this since you haven't really made a single point to put it in a negative light
  • xen1912xen1912 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 309 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    well my actual reason was that there are plenty of threads just like this. one that's actually going on right now. too many threads repeating the same exact complaints. There is level scaling in quests, just not in dungeons. this is not an open world game, its instance orientated. if you get level scaled, your party will have to fight mobs your level.

  • pizzamuraipizzamurai Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    I apologize if you think there's too many threads on it.
    xen1912 wrote: »
    if you get level scaled, your party will have to fight mobs your level.

    That... is kind of the point. Not to mention that the daily skirmish and dungeon quests get up to like 3 or four before you can do the quests. For some dungeons, that's like 6 hours of sitting around waiting for the queue to pop ALONE, not even including the time it takes to do a dungeon.

    Both STO and Champions have it (both cryptic games) so... I don't see any reason why it shouldn't be here too, sooner than later.
  • xen1912xen1912 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 309 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    if they have it then this should have it to. and I hope it eventually will. for now.. people are just manually entering it to avoid queues and to get certain titles and doing their daily quests. its not exactly fun, easy to start, or challenging. which is your point I suppose. I can only hope once the initial problems have died down within the next week or two that stuff like this can get sorted out.

  • sadmummysadmummy Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    I hate level scaling. So I vote NO.

    I have to agree tho, in gw2 they managed to do it quite well.
  • deahamletdeahamlet Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users Posts: 191 Bounty Hunter
    edited May 2013
    I hated that you couldn't turn off scaling in gw2. I felt like a scrub the whole entire time... and eventually ruined any interest on exploring the whole map on anything other than one character.

    But an optional system would be nice.

    In PSO2 it does not downlevel you, if you want to bring your friend into higher level areas or go to their low level areas that's okay. XP is not reduced either way. But PSO2 does not have DnD style dungeons of any sorts and grinding takes a long time anyway.
  • madblooddollmadblooddoll Member Posts: 6 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    I like level scaling if you can turn it off like in some games. The beta ... the before beta was 100% solo friendly for me. Hopefully most of it still is. I don't like forced grouping, the whole artificial friends thing is not good in my book.
  • calaminthacalamintha Member, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    We ran into this the first day of playing. We couldn't queue into a skirmish because one player was a level higher than the rest.
    xen1912 wrote: »
    well my actual reason was that there are plenty of threads just like this. one that's actually going on right now. too many threads repeating the same exact complaints. There is level scaling in quests, just not in dungeons. this is not an open world game, its instance orientated. if you get level scaled, your party will have to fight mobs your level.

    Level scaled quests? Apart from Foundry where are they?
    deahamlet wrote: »
    I hated that you couldn't turn off scaling in gw2. I felt like a scrub the whole entire time... and eventually ruined any interest on exploring the whole map on anything other than one character.

    Even with level scaling any higher level character could solo low level events because scaling didn't remove your powers are reduce your equipment bonuses enough. But since the point of level scaling was to make you get full xp and equipment even if you kill lower level mobs I don't see why it couldn't be disabled. You'd just get (almost) no XP and low level drops.
  • gmajorplayzgmajorplayz Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 8 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    +1, I find the same very frustrating as I play with a group of friends, solo and with the lady, all at different times and each level at different rates. Keeping characters within level bounds is annoying and detracts from how fun the game is - as per the OP "sorry i've leveled my char up too high/alt is too low" etc etc.

    I haven't played the others with level scaling, but FireFall doesn't really have such levels and means everyone at any time can play together - I know its not the same, but it completely removes any worry of singling one/more players out of the group because they haven't played as much as the rest.

    Not sure about scaling up, but if someone has already passed that level, being able to scale DOWN to join lower friends doing skirmishes and dungeons would be great.
  • somebobsomebob Member Posts: 1,887 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    STO has level scaling (both ways).

    CO has level scaling (also both ways).

    NW....doesn't. And it's running the same Cryptic Engine as the other two games are.

    What happened?
  • pizzamuraipizzamurai Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    somebob wrote: »
    STO has level scaling (both ways).

    CO has level scaling (also both ways).

    NW....doesn't. And it's running the same Cryptic Engine as the other two games are.

    What happened?

    Time? Bad memory? Dunno, but I want it.
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