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GWF Design.
emrik
Member, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 1 Arc User
I'm really trying to understand the logic behind this class.
When I think Big Sword, I think Slow attacks, High Damage AoE, stuns, pushback.
The low level was bad and just plain boring... until I got that Leaping Strike, which was quite fun to use, but again dealt very low damages.
I am playing duo with a friend who's Cleric. Even now, at level 24, he out-damage me in instances, keeps getting the agro, can AoE for more damage than me (Pillar Daily > all my dailys, AoE encouter > my AoE encouter), can heal, can attack from a distance.
The only thing he's worst at is tanking- but I suspect it's because he cannot heal himself for as much as he can heal me (and add my Cleric companion).
Problems :
First and foremost, my biggest disappointment was the Unstoppable skill.
# I had to take damage (I spent 10 level dodging everything, now I need to stop playing wise and tell my friend to let me attack them for like 3 seconds before he starts doing anything because I won't be able to get any determination otherwise.)
# Why give an attack speed boost? I'm not a berserker, I'm a GWF - My main purpose should be to create chaos on the battlefield.
# It lowers your damage dealt, last 3 seconds, and lower damage taken. Did I pick a tank class? I'm confused now.
# The fact you're immune to control effect is GREAT- BUT... Yeah, when you fight in PvP you soon realize you die before being able to use it. Why? Because they start the fight with the disables. And you had no way to build Determination before they attacked you. And even if you get to use it... you still won't outdamage anyone in a duel- and you can't break free of control effect with it, you need to do it before- which mean they'll just run, wait until it's over, resetting their cooldowns in the process, and come back to freakin **** you. Slow doesn't work well against Dodge Roll and Teleport. Now you might be wondering why would anyone duel when playing a GWF... well because if you go 1 vs 3- you'll die even faster and deal less damage in the end.
But that's not the end of it...
# Low damage At-Will skills. Big weapon = Big damage. Every other class including Guardian Fighter and Cleric outdamage the GWF if they want to until level 25 at least.
# Restoring strike does not fit a GWF- just like Unstoppable.
# Reaping is only good for building Determination, if you can get the enemy to attack you.
# Not so Fast damages are just... can we call them damages?
# Takedown just feels useless. The enemy is long gone before you can use it. I actually thought I'd dash forward when using it... but no.
# Wicked Strikes damages are just too low for the time it takes to land a hit... It's not very often that I can hit more than 3 monsters with it... and it actually become better than the other skill if they are more than 3.
I heard people say the GWF actually become good after level 35... I don't know if I'll have the courage to go that far to maybe start being of some use.
So I'm asking two questions :
Why make the TAB skill of a class that isn't meant to be a Tank one that require you to take damage? I read the skill description three time thinking I read wrong and that I would actually get Determination by attacking stuff.
Why make the At-Will skills so weak? And weaken them even more when you actually have enough Determination to make them do some damage? Was it to balance things out at High level? If so... do you realize how frustrated a newcomer would be if he chose GWF as his first class, did his first skirmish, and saw every single class outdamage him- even the tank at the result screen?
The only reason I'm still playing and trying to see if GWF will get better is because I tried a Rogue as my first character and had a blast. Getting to level 10 opened so much possibilities... I thought getting level 10 would make GWF more fun... then I thought Getting level 20 would make it more viable... then I tried a couple of PvP at level 25 and came to post this. Because I had no fun.
If I was always first in ranking with my thief, now I'm always last with my GWF- or 9th on 10---- when there is two GWF.
Maybe it's actually about taste... but I fail to see why anyone would like Unstoppable and the low level part to stay that way.
When I think Big Sword, I think Slow attacks, High Damage AoE, stuns, pushback.
The low level was bad and just plain boring... until I got that Leaping Strike, which was quite fun to use, but again dealt very low damages.
I am playing duo with a friend who's Cleric. Even now, at level 24, he out-damage me in instances, keeps getting the agro, can AoE for more damage than me (Pillar Daily > all my dailys, AoE encouter > my AoE encouter), can heal, can attack from a distance.
The only thing he's worst at is tanking- but I suspect it's because he cannot heal himself for as much as he can heal me (and add my Cleric companion).
Problems :
First and foremost, my biggest disappointment was the Unstoppable skill.
# I had to take damage (I spent 10 level dodging everything, now I need to stop playing wise and tell my friend to let me attack them for like 3 seconds before he starts doing anything because I won't be able to get any determination otherwise.)
# Why give an attack speed boost? I'm not a berserker, I'm a GWF - My main purpose should be to create chaos on the battlefield.
# It lowers your damage dealt, last 3 seconds, and lower damage taken. Did I pick a tank class? I'm confused now.
# The fact you're immune to control effect is GREAT- BUT... Yeah, when you fight in PvP you soon realize you die before being able to use it. Why? Because they start the fight with the disables. And you had no way to build Determination before they attacked you. And even if you get to use it... you still won't outdamage anyone in a duel- and you can't break free of control effect with it, you need to do it before- which mean they'll just run, wait until it's over, resetting their cooldowns in the process, and come back to freakin **** you. Slow doesn't work well against Dodge Roll and Teleport. Now you might be wondering why would anyone duel when playing a GWF... well because if you go 1 vs 3- you'll die even faster and deal less damage in the end.
But that's not the end of it...
# Low damage At-Will skills. Big weapon = Big damage. Every other class including Guardian Fighter and Cleric outdamage the GWF if they want to until level 25 at least.
# Restoring strike does not fit a GWF- just like Unstoppable.
# Reaping is only good for building Determination, if you can get the enemy to attack you.
# Not so Fast damages are just... can we call them damages?
# Takedown just feels useless. The enemy is long gone before you can use it. I actually thought I'd dash forward when using it... but no.
# Wicked Strikes damages are just too low for the time it takes to land a hit... It's not very often that I can hit more than 3 monsters with it... and it actually become better than the other skill if they are more than 3.
I heard people say the GWF actually become good after level 35... I don't know if I'll have the courage to go that far to maybe start being of some use.
So I'm asking two questions :
Why make the TAB skill of a class that isn't meant to be a Tank one that require you to take damage? I read the skill description three time thinking I read wrong and that I would actually get Determination by attacking stuff.
Why make the At-Will skills so weak? And weaken them even more when you actually have enough Determination to make them do some damage? Was it to balance things out at High level? If so... do you realize how frustrated a newcomer would be if he chose GWF as his first class, did his first skirmish, and saw every single class outdamage him- even the tank at the result screen?
The only reason I'm still playing and trying to see if GWF will get better is because I tried a Rogue as my first character and had a blast. Getting to level 10 opened so much possibilities... I thought getting level 10 would make GWF more fun... then I thought Getting level 20 would make it more viable... then I tried a couple of PvP at level 25 and came to post this. Because I had no fun.
If I was always first in ranking with my thief, now I'm always last with my GWF- or 9th on 10---- when there is two GWF.
Maybe it's actually about taste... but I fail to see why anyone would like Unstoppable and the low level part to stay that way.
Post edited by emrik on
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Comments
So Under this logic. ALL classes get better in the same level range for the same reason.
As for your comments on GWF not being a tank... They are or at least need to be tanky enough to allow a barbarian class to come in and be a different unique class separate from the GWF. They are not though there tanky tree is Worse than there damage spec. The only viable option for GWF is Destroyer that allows you to gain determination by dealing damage at lv 50.
Now I would like to point out a few points about determination you missed.
When compared to other classes it is the ONLY power that starts combat at 0% because the determination bar determinates over time. And Cleric is the only Other Class whos Tab power builds during combat. But they can activate and deactivate there Channel power at will, use as much or as little as they want And theres only goes down when using powers. So if in PvP if a character escapes they don't waste it, or they keep it on and wait for the most opportune moment to use it.
Wizards just have an extra more powerful encounter, Guard and stealth bars refill out of combat.
Determination is the ONLY power of the all other classes that is WEAKER if it is activated not at a full Bar. Activating it at half lasts half as long and half as much damage resistance, I think the attack speed may even be lower too but that is harder to pinpoint
GWF NEED to be able to activate Determination when held. (They are Weak enough in PvP as it is and some players would like to see a class that is a good counter to the wizard.
Deamination should not deteriate over time, This is not "Rage" it is a fighters focus it should increase with combat and hold until they are ready to use it.
This goes up to a point I have not yet experienced, but the leveling was really harsh and if you manage to get to 60 it is mostly downhill. Everything synergizes and it feels great.
Imagine Slam (25% power if destroyer) and Determination (fast At-Wills).
What disappoint me is that if you attack countless mobs at same time you barely can get past rogue DPS on the damage chart most of the time, unless you're higher on gear score, in which case it's easier. You lack the needed power to take out trash quickly, you just tank them actually and keep going till they die: usually for strong boss trashes rogue is better, because of the burst DPS.
people who get last place are just bad.
I position myself good almost always first in DPS and kills in dungeons with a lot of trash mobs, but usually rogues even in those situations, if well-played, do more DPS, because they have the potential to do it.
The unstoppable focused build destroys TR... IT will only work when you begin to get geared.
It was funny because its been catching on slowly now; but people were saying thats BS... I've never seen a good Gwf bla bla. Always TR on top winning. (Or now even those guardian dps; lol people saying guardians are useless because they dont know how to play them; They have a build that has some of the best dps atm; I digress)
Back to Gwf...first of all meta builds are found by people with an eye for finding the niches and synergy's in classes, especially the one's that fit them like a pair of gloves. They eventually get handed out to the rest of the gamers over time. TONS of people are playing this game on these super servers. Id say a good 50-60% of the GWf from OB on were dropping the class in 20s. (They took nerf at end of CB) And then ID say another 30-40% or so kept on because its their play style and or don't even care about maxing; they just want to play. This leaves people running into GWF's that are under geared (naturally) bad builds; broken builds lacking any synergy's... etc. So this means that only a handful even know about the Destroyer hybrid or Unstoppable build... So of coarse you dont run into them...for one, for the most part they are running with their friends or guilds... But yeah they are out there and can destroy the charts. Especially since all fights in this game usually entail tons of adds... (Its the MO so far)