test content
Logo
What is the Arc Client?
Install Arc
Options
We need to be able to cancel abilities' animation by moving...
mrfalrinth
Member Posts: 124 Bounty Hunter
...or we need true instant abilities that dont have locked casting animation, rooting character in place till they finish. Or a mix of both remedies.
Especially due to the fact that servers are on single continent. We already have high latency due to distance from anywhere but US? And then combine the latency with long casting animations that LOCKS your character in them, so you cant even move, canceling it to get away from danger.
Sometimes playing the game feels like turn-based game. If you chosed to cast ability or do several strikes, then its set in stone and you have to watch your character doing them even tho you want to get away from danger.
For me its most painfull (at the moment) with those orcish warlocks that brings a meteor on top of you, knocking you down even if you Guard with shield. It takes so little time since the red mark appears under your feet, that if you were executing the 3 hits combo you wont get away in time cause your character is locked in the combo animation and you start leaving to late, being hit by meteor right at the edge or even if you go away, but lag gets you.
So i dont think that its good thing. It makes it more a game of anticipating what mobs will do over watching what IS happening and reacting like in proper real-time games.
Especially due to the fact that servers are on single continent. We already have high latency due to distance from anywhere but US? And then combine the latency with long casting animations that LOCKS your character in them, so you cant even move, canceling it to get away from danger.
Sometimes playing the game feels like turn-based game. If you chosed to cast ability or do several strikes, then its set in stone and you have to watch your character doing them even tho you want to get away from danger.
For me its most painfull (at the moment) with those orcish warlocks that brings a meteor on top of you, knocking you down even if you Guard with shield. It takes so little time since the red mark appears under your feet, that if you were executing the 3 hits combo you wont get away in time cause your character is locked in the combo animation and you start leaving to late, being hit by meteor right at the edge or even if you go away, but lag gets you.
So i dont think that its good thing. It makes it more a game of anticipating what mobs will do over watching what IS happening and reacting like in proper real-time games.
Post edited by mrfalrinth on
0
Comments
Thought it was pretty much standard in "action based mmo's".
I dont think anyone but TR have that ability. ANd still, dodges are ment for quick... dodges. Not an exclusive ability to unstun and unroot yourself.
Oh. Well, that kind of sucks then.
Done it on my CW.
On a personal note, I love that the animations force you to commit. As a CW it adds a sense of danger to my play that I really like.
That is simply not true. My Guardian always first finishes his animation before guard kicks in from the shift press. And that plenty of times is to late.
We should be able to cancel the animation at any point through a separate key. Many games let you cancel them through normal movement, jumping, or just using the Escape key. These are all wonderful options, not tied to any class mechanic, that give players better control of combat.
There's a boss near the end who does a frontal cone lightning attack that will kill you in one go if you don't have block up (and guard break/severely damage you even if you do). In theory it's a nice level of difficulty. You know it's coming thanks to the AI's attack pattern and there's just enough time to get out of the way, but if like you say you misjudge the timing on a three hit combo by a half second you'll kill yourself. The latency already makes it so I have to block and back out of the cone rather than just run (unless I'm already running at the time).
If they introduce block/movement based cancelling I think it'll really up what they can do in terms of engagingly difficult content. Without it they're going to have to dumb the content down to make it playable.
They also need to get rid of that pause after you dodge. I should be able to just hold Shift and hold Left to string two rolls directly together, or tap Shift and hold Left to roll once then exit the roll running.
I'd rather my sense of danger come from engaging fights with good mechanics instead of gimped control systems that handle like their waist deep in mud. =P
All that happens on this path is the bosses have to start telegraphing their attacks with longer pre-cast animations so the game is playable for international players/a larger audience. Ultimately you lose the sense of danger because you've got too much time to react.
Simpler: Those options are neccesary to not TAKE AWAY control from player. Totally disconnecting him from his avatar.What they did is like making a racing game where when you push gas, car will accelerate for 10 seconds, and you cant turn and decelerate untill the animation of acceleration is over
Realm of the Demiurge Foundry Works
Neverwinter isn't D&D, it is a MMO based on a game that uses D&D terms but isn't really D&D either. NW is fun (for that matter so is 4E), but it isn't D&D, and once you wrap your expectations around that you will be able to enjoy the game for what it offers and not worry about what it does not.
Your theory is so ignorant, cynical and flawed in some many points that i dont even know where to start commenting it... Im to tired not to sound insulting replying to you, so i will just pass.
Except that the majority of fights in the game are built around attack mechanics you should never, ever stand your ground against (and even the ones that you should stand your ground against require movement thanks to combat advantage). It's not like say World of Warcraft or Star Wars: The Old Republic where you just get up next to someone, stand still and let your numbers duke it out. As a Guardian Fighter I'm built to stand my ground and that's fine, but they've intentionally made it so that even as a tank the mechanics require attention. There's no passive damage sponge tanking for me because I've got to block and dodge. It can be done with the current system, but like I said before it's like walking through waist deep mud.
Here's the big thing to consider on the topic. The action MMORPG is still in it's early stages of transitioning from traditional MMORPG to action MMORPG but that doesn't mean that traditional MMORPGs are the right/only place to draw experience from. If you look at it coming from something like Guild Wars 2, The Secret World or TERA it's making some big leaps and everything seems fine, but if you come at from the past four decades of action games you'll find they're still making mistakes that would sink any other action game.
Cancelling, combos, casting, etc are all in stages that are only acceptable because there's a severe lack of competition in the action MMORPG arena. These games have far more in common with old school brawlers like Double Dragon than traditional MMORPGs which were built as real-time turn based games. To grow the action MMORPG genre needs to look to games like God of War, Darksiders, Zelda, even games like Street Fighter and Tekken. That's not to say they need to play like them just that they encounter the same issues those games do when it comes to fluid, engaging, enjoyable, skill based combat.
Actually, no his comment is quite sound. The Devs have stated this is their intended direction with the game. As a guardian fighter you need to watch your enemies animations. If you are repeatedly getting hit by the orc cleric's knock down, it's you needing to learn to drop your guard and not attack so often so you can get out of the way. If you sit there and spam attacks, you will eat damage.
In case you think I'm talking out my ***: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DKSOPZSGs64
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z0E6Yw-M1YY
But that doesn't mean the current method is the right way to achieve that goal. Nobody is saying that you shouldn't have to pay attention to audio and visual cues on enemies, but as a Guardian Fighter I'm finding I can't smoothly block or get out of the way of larger AoE markers due to minor latency coupled with the inability to cancel into utility moves. I can do it but it's nowhere near as smooth an action as it should be.
I'm finding I need to stop attacking bosses as soon as they do the move before their special move so my character isn't locked when it's time to react. That's the point where the game moves away from reaction and skill and towards prediction. When you design fights like that it becomes a game of pattern recognition rather than engaging enemies. Anyway, my current strategy of recognising patterns works for solo content but when I get to raiding and I'm pushing my character to it's limits so that's not going to cut it. I'm not going to be free to spend 4 seconds standing there not doing anything while I wait for an attack I know is coming.
The fights and telegraphing are really tight right now which is great but the slowed reaction time built into the engine ruins it. Even with connection latency my reaction time is fine 99% of the time provided my character is responsive enough to do what I tell it when I tell it. If the characters are made more responsive it should allow the dev team to make some really nice boss fights where you actually have to watch your opponent rather than just figure out the AI attack patterns.
Welcome to tanking in neverwinter. If you've realized this you are one step closer to tanking effectively than 50% of the other GF's out there. ALL action games are about pattern recognition. Dark Souls, DMC, Mega Man, etc, enemies have attack patterns that you must learn to recognize and circumvent successfully. The reason they have these animations and patterns is SO you can successfully predict what is coming next and prepare accordingly. This isn't a one on one fighting game you play shoulder to shoulder with a friend. This is an MMORPG with action elements played by millions of players around the world. With latency from your machine, to their server which is MILES AWAY and back again. You can't expect that kind of responsiveness to make it reaction based, so they have to make it pattern based.
Also, here's the kicker: You have to learn HOW to engage enemies AND avoid their attacks as effectively as possible. That is the nature of the beast in this game.
Planning ahead of time and paying attention IS part of the skill. The same as it is in chess. I would LOVE for it to be more reaction based as in a fighter, but, quite frankly, I don't think we have the technology yet.
Yes, and again I'm not saying get rid of them, however with how clunky the current system is Neverwinter is setting itself up to be is pure pattern recognition instead of a balanced approach. Pure pattern recognition ends with you knowing with enough certainty what the boss is going to do next that you blindly reacting ahead of time.
Meanwhile a good balance of pattern recognition and skill results in you knowing the possibilities, knowing how to react to them while still reacting to them as they come at you. It keeps the fights engaging without having to resort to using stats too much. Ultimately I feel the major thing holding them back from achieving that sweet spot of skill and strategy balance is character responsiveness.
I'm a lot more than miles away from a sever. Speed of light in a direct line from the server to my house with no routing the best latency I'll get is like 100ms. That's why cancelling is important to me. It gives the character a level of responsiveness that enables maximum use of the windows to react even in high latency situations. It'll never be perfect, but the only way you're truly going to resolve latency issues is making it completely turn based. Cancelling doesn't resolve the issue by much but it does soften the blow and make the game more playable.
Of course I do. I don't know where you're getting the idea that we want to remove that aspect. Cancelling abilities to maximise movement/dodge/block responsiveness doesn't mean we get to just durp through the fight randomly spamming all our attacks. Personally I wouldn't want to be able to cancel anything higher than At Will powers and a few minor things to make transitions more fluid like I mentioned in an earlier post.
It simply means more responsive behaviour with smoother controls and the ability for the devs to include fights that have more random elements with tighter reaction checks.