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Chartillifax vastly overtuned and the Dungeon Finder tool fails.
zendad01
Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users Posts: 8 Arc User
So with my 3rd Dungeon Finder group failing to be able to kill Chartillifax, the final boss in 'Lair of the Mad Dragon', and now that I cannot queue for it anymore since I am 35, I felt now was the time to post some feedback.
Most players by now have probably noticed that the majority of parties that are put together by the dungeon finder tool cannot finish the last boss, this is mainly because the constant spawning adds are not just a bunch of weak trash that can be AoE'd down, but are actually high HP strong adds that require group focus to defeat. This is often compounded by the fact that the Dungeon Finder doesn't equate a 'Holy Trinity' concept into it's player selection so one group I had was actually 4 Trickster Rogues all 30-32 and me, a Control Wizard. We had no one that could heal and nothing that could really hold aggro.
The majority of groups being put together manually out in Helms Hold (as opposed to through Dungeon Finder) actually want players to be 35 though at 35 you can't even queue anymore. I think that says something about how difficult players find Chartillifax.
As far as the encounter goes the main thing needed to balance it is changing the add spawns to something weaker, have all these ranged nuke classes like Eyrineyes (sp) and Summoners, then later the demon lord ones is what inevitably kills everyone off. The second is the amount of HP Chartillifax has, I'm noticing that the Cryptic idea of an epic fight is simply to give bosses obscene amounts of HP so that it takes 10 minutes to wear it down, even if you have the adds under control. At least Chartillifax has the poison breath and puddles to make it seem like it's something somewhat different.
The other thing though, and perhaps even more important than the balance issues is that I think the Devs need to look at the Dungeon Finder tool itself. I think it's important not for just balancing fights, but also loot that you set the Dungeon Finder to not allow for multiple players of the same class to be added to a party, this is one of the big mistakes the tool in DCUniverse fails with so much as well, I fear it won't be long until are running into the same issues they do in that game where a lot of groups will just kick or ask you to leave if you are put into a group and you are not the class (read 'not a healer') that they feel they need. Don't make this mistake, it wastes our time to be in a queue for 20 minutes only to be kicked because all the party wants is a healer.
Lastly, right after the second boss one of our party members dropped group because they had to go. We never received a new player, nor could we queue for one. Is this working as intended? We made one attempt as a 4 man group to kill Char and then everyone started dropping because we never got our fifth. Is there a reason for this? It's going to be very frustrating if there is no way to re-queue for a new member.
Most players by now have probably noticed that the majority of parties that are put together by the dungeon finder tool cannot finish the last boss, this is mainly because the constant spawning adds are not just a bunch of weak trash that can be AoE'd down, but are actually high HP strong adds that require group focus to defeat. This is often compounded by the fact that the Dungeon Finder doesn't equate a 'Holy Trinity' concept into it's player selection so one group I had was actually 4 Trickster Rogues all 30-32 and me, a Control Wizard. We had no one that could heal and nothing that could really hold aggro.
The majority of groups being put together manually out in Helms Hold (as opposed to through Dungeon Finder) actually want players to be 35 though at 35 you can't even queue anymore. I think that says something about how difficult players find Chartillifax.
As far as the encounter goes the main thing needed to balance it is changing the add spawns to something weaker, have all these ranged nuke classes like Eyrineyes (sp) and Summoners, then later the demon lord ones is what inevitably kills everyone off. The second is the amount of HP Chartillifax has, I'm noticing that the Cryptic idea of an epic fight is simply to give bosses obscene amounts of HP so that it takes 10 minutes to wear it down, even if you have the adds under control. At least Chartillifax has the poison breath and puddles to make it seem like it's something somewhat different.
The other thing though, and perhaps even more important than the balance issues is that I think the Devs need to look at the Dungeon Finder tool itself. I think it's important not for just balancing fights, but also loot that you set the Dungeon Finder to not allow for multiple players of the same class to be added to a party, this is one of the big mistakes the tool in DCUniverse fails with so much as well, I fear it won't be long until are running into the same issues they do in that game where a lot of groups will just kick or ask you to leave if you are put into a group and you are not the class (read 'not a healer') that they feel they need. Don't make this mistake, it wastes our time to be in a queue for 20 minutes only to be kicked because all the party wants is a healer.
Lastly, right after the second boss one of our party members dropped group because they had to go. We never received a new player, nor could we queue for one. Is this working as intended? We made one attempt as a 4 man group to kill Char and then everyone started dropping because we never got our fifth. Is there a reason for this? It's going to be very frustrating if there is no way to re-queue for a new member.
Post edited by zendad01 on
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Make sure people are using pots and even the cleric healing companion if you have it.
Griffeth - GW Fighter - Beholder Shard
Twitch - WoW and NWO Gameplay - YouTube Channel
GF/GWF Gameplay Highlights/Dungeon Runs
WoW is the welfare epic, other games can present some challenge.
Griffeth - GW Fighter - Beholder Shard
Twitch - WoW and NWO Gameplay - YouTube Channel
GF/GWF Gameplay Highlights/Dungeon Runs
Welcome to the world of DPS. If you don't want to wait in a queue then make a Tank/Healer, or make friends with one. I don't see an issue with DPS having to wait to get into a dungeon, since people -always- heavily lean to DPS and there's never enough support to go around.
Better to wait extra time for a proper group via the queue rather than waste all your time for a bad group of DPS that can't do it.
Especially since you can circumvent the LFG tool to get into a dungeon without it, and with friends, I see no issue making the finder work the right way and building a balanced group.
Do I agree that this dragon needs a bit of tuning? Yes.
Do I think that a dragon should be a pushover? No.
Griffeth - GW Fighter - Beholder Shard
Twitch - WoW and NWO Gameplay - YouTube Channel
GF/GWF Gameplay Highlights/Dungeon Runs
who ever said that? Tarrasque was the big nasty in all the Monster Manuals.
Dragons were fightable across all levels depending on their age.
I am sure there are elite players out there that have succeeded on this dungeon but I would rather not have leveling content limited to the elites. I don't think that most groups should be able to kill it on the first try. It should take a bit of planning but I would like to see it be something that a pug can get though if they stick to it.
All die, so die well.
This does seem funny, but true. Not sure if altering the regular version would affect the epic version, but for the level, the normal version feels like huge step up in difficulty, with the following not being so hard.
When i wiped on him it was mostly cause 2-3 players was just dpsing the dragon and not even moving out of the red circles, just waiting the rest to deal with adds and heal up them. Or even refusing to use potions at all....
Maybe it can use a bit of hp reduction on boss tho, he is just soooo long. The adds r hard and we can try to deal with it, but i dont think its funny to just have a 10 min long fights. Longs fights rnt hard at all, just boring.
Also i want to notice the "if some1 leave, screw you" thing. I wasnt able to get more players either, and its a pity to need to start all over again cause some1 left :S
The fight is not "hard" if people listen and follow directions. In fact I think that other than maybe the pirate guy, this is one of the best dungeon bosses I have seen. It actually takes working together and following mechanics versus just standing in a circle and holding your left mouse button down.
"Perfecting the art of being a meatshield since 1998"
Banners of the Light
Slightly off topic (but not really, since this was brought up already), why on earth are groups even allowed to enter without a cleric? Dungeons seem to be tuned under the assumption that there is a dedicated healer (or leader, in DnD 4e terms). Tanks (defenders) are definitely considered separate for queues. Why are healers not? I don't get it.
By the way, for those of you worried about queues taking longer because you'd have to wait for a cleric -- you won't. Tanks will still be the deciding factor for how fast your queues are.
That is pretty much exactly what my group did. Rogue tanks are op. Heres the run for prerusal from the clerics point of view: http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xzlcvt_neverwinter-lair-of-the-mad-dragon_videogames
Basically, rogue tanks the dragon, tank runs around like headless chicken trying to dps down anything that isnt a dragon, cleric plays a game of "dodge the red circles" and everyone else just survives until the counter (dragons hp) ticks down to 0.
I recall fondly while I has like, 0 guard meter for most of the last waves add spawns solely due to facetanking them and drinking potions like a fat kid inhales cake. Even then, I couldnt keep all of their attention. Also protip, 1 tank isnt enough dps to take down a Eyrinyes when they start aoe healing. Needs a lil help on those.
The point is they either have to tune fights so that say, 5 of one class can clear it OR they need to fix the DF tool so that it makes balanced teams. Yes, this means that DPS typically get longer queues, but it's better to wait in a 20 minute queue, which by the way, we all typically are already doing unless it's Dungeon Delve bonus hour, than it is to queue up multiple times and get to the final boss only to not be able to clear it.
The balance issues in any MMO are almost always unimportant to people who are strictly putting together groups through their guild. My post wasn't about that, I was specifically writing about the experience and tuning for the random groups the DF tool puts together.
well these guys cleared it with you know.....COMMUNICATION
I've noticed a lot of impatient groups who just focus the boss and leave me to kite then inevitably die because they think its just tank and spank.
I did it at 34, and feel like it's not worth my time and mats to bang my head against it. More fun things to do out there...and that could be a problem. If a game isn't fun, why play it eh?
Could use a small adjustment.