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Control Wizards and raids

everharmeverharm Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users Posts: 2 Arc User
edited May 2013 in PvE Discussion
As one of the trickster rogues (we are legion) constantly trying to get behind the mob for safety in order to start getting sly flourishes to crank up I've found it extra difficult, since the "control buff" to control wizards, to stay behind the bosses when we happen to have a wizard in the party. It's like the mobs get pushed around all over the dang room, making it an issue of having to chase the enemy all over the room. Meanwhile the tank is also having to chase the thing around and the fight ends up looking like some Benny Hill affair with silly music in the background as the melee's chase the mob all over the place. This doesn't happen when there isn't a control wizard in the party. I was wondering if this is a more learn 2 play issue here or if this is what is to be expected endgame. I suppose I like organization, get the tank on the mob, control wizard control one or two of the mobs, rogues burn down the mob the tank is on.

Any thoughts?
Post edited by everharm on

Comments

  • elyrielleelyrielle Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited April 2013
    It's funny there's this thread and then the complaints from wizards how our cc doesn't actually work on bosses...

    But I think I understand you're not really talking about 'raids' so much as 'trash in dungeons', and I get that can be annoying to work around us tossing <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> everywhere like a tornado.
  • novronnovron Member Posts: 84 Arc User
    edited April 2013
    It's a learn to play issue. Tell the CW to knock it off.
  • aoaechoaoaecho Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 5 Arc User
    edited April 2013
    novron wrote: »
    It's a learn to play issue. Tell the CW to knock it off.

    As a CW some bosses our knock backs/cc work on and some bosses it does not. In general though its a learn to play issue, many just go omg yellow and orange numbers and my ability is off cooldown! Spam spam spam. There is a time and place for knockbacks and most CW seem to have no idea when use them.
  • soanvalckesoanvalcke Member Posts: 30 Arc User
    edited April 2013
    Control wizards should never be using their knockbacks in dungeons. Tell them to L2P. I don't even have a knockback slotted, except if I decide I want to use the AOE frost nova thing.
  • xk27xk27 Member Posts: 22 Arc User
    edited April 2013
    It's probably not pertinent to the OP, but I've also noticed that multiple dire wolves add a ton of knockback, especially when a mob is being lifted. Makes positioning very difficult as a rogue.
  • dixa1dixa1 Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 4 Arc User
    edited April 2013
    xk27 wrote: »
    It's probably not pertinent to the OP, but I've also noticed that multiple dire wolves add a ton of knockback, especially when a mob is being lifted. Makes positioning very difficult as a rogue.

    that's tiny compared to the half-a-room-away knockback that so many cw's like to spam
  • angelxeyeangelxeye Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild Users Posts: 1
    edited April 2013
    soanvalcke wrote: »
    Control wizards should never be using their knockbacks in dungeons. Tell them to L2P. I don't even have a knockback slotted, except if I decide I want to use the AOE frost nova thing.

    I did not even put points into many of the push back ones other than the ice storm- and i use it only when we really really need it! Yes others have to learn to work with- but many of us CW's know better... I send em into the air when i can because it holds and allows others to attack. :)
  • symonhumbleuksymonhumbleuk Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 89
    edited April 2013
    Seen some great wizards whilst i've been tanking, but there are some that just cause us alot of problems, pushing adds/mobs etc away from the tank towards healer or someone who doesn't and can't take tonnes of damage.

    Little annoying.
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  • meithrasmeithras Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 15 Arc User
    edited April 2013
    I've been seeing a lot of CWs using Ice Storm (the big icy AOE, with push back), which in my opinion has no real place in dungeon runs. Singularity is much better suited for AOE purposes, and it groups the mobs together into one pile rather than throwing them around the room. I also avoid using Repel in dungeons, and try and limit the use of the push back from shield for emergencies only, and to use it only against minor swarming mobs (the imps in MD for example).

    As people above have mentioned, it's a L2P sort of thing.
  • darkzero00darkzero00 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited April 2013
    angelxeye wrote: »
    I did not even put points into many of the push back ones other than the ice storm- and i use it only when we really really need it! Yes others have to learn to work with- but many of us CW's know better... I send em into the air when i can because it holds and allows others to attack. :)

    what is the spell called that allows you to send'em in the air?
  • meithrasmeithras Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 15 Arc User
    edited April 2013
    I think he means Entangling Force (aka 'Choke').
  • garbadukegarbaduke Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, Silverstars Posts: 32
    edited April 2013
    CW here. No knockbacks on my hotbar. I have icestorm as my secondary daily for those holy @#$% moments. I like nice tight groups of mobs.
  • imivoimivo Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 1,682 Bounty Hunter
    edited April 2013
    I don't use knockbacks in dungeons either, usually. I sometimes swap it in for specific encounters where I know I'll need to get mobs off the cleric, but for the most part it's the same as in every other MMO: knockbacks are for solo and PvP. Plus, as Garbaduke mentioned above, if you want to do maximum damage as a CW, you want mobs bunched up, not all over the place.

    What bugs me a bit as a CW are rogues who nuke down the mob that has Conduit of Ice (the one that sprays ice shards) when there are other mobs around. The built-in dps meter is fun, but it causes all sorts of unhelpful and needlessly competitive behavior.

    So anyway, it is not a CW problem. It's a problem of playing with people who may lack experience. You can always ask them or explain it to them, as some may genuinely not realize what the trouble is. Whisper them so that they don't feel like you call them out.
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  • nec0enec0e Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited April 2013
    i love my knockbacks i think people tend to just use them wrong - as in use htem all the time. a knockback in my miind is far better when saying a cleric for example, sure i could do arcane singularity but tis slow, a nice ice storm clears the mobs quickly and painfully!
  • tfangeltfangel Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited April 2013
    My favorite two dailies for dungeons are the one that sucks into a black hole, and the one that takes all the mobs near you and plops them down prone in a spot you choose. Pick both spots near tank, win. ;)
  • imivoimivo Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 1,682 Bounty Hunter
    edited April 2013
    tfangel wrote: »
    My favorite two dailies for dungeons are the one that sucks into a black hole, and the one that takes all the mobs near you and plops them down prone in a spot you choose. Pick both spots near tank, win. ;)

    Singularity and Ice Storm -- by far the best general purpose dailies. :) Some people swear by Ice Knife, but I find it a bit lacking.
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  • mathbathmathbath Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 33
    edited May 2013
    Ice knife is awesome single target damage. I dont use push backs for the most part. And maelstrom of chaos is pretty excellent, too. Closest thing i have to a push back is shard of the endless avalance, and you can Target that pretty fluidly if its your tab skill.
  • thomas316thomas316 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    so other then to tell the cw to cut it out how does one manage his dps a melee when they wont stop
  • dominemesisdominemesis Member Posts: 269 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    Depends on the dungeon. Pirate King for instance, most of the trash in that dungeon is dealt with by pushing it off ledges. In Temple of the Spider Queen, some of the trash, and adds on most boss fights, the same thing. The Spider Queen fight used to be about pushing the adds off ledges, but they changed it because people were glitching the boss by making her commit suicide off the ledge.
    Still though, the adds in that fight are mostly kept in near perma-singularity which is fueled largely by shield pushes. So it really depends on the strategy being employed and the dungeon being run. CW's have the ability to push the hell outta stuff, or turn it all off depending on power choices. If it is a problem address it with the CW in your group. My 2 cents.
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