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How satisfied are you with the Rogue Design?
lazerusai
Member, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 13 Arc User
I for myself think it is horrible how they have designed the Rogue.
In generell the whole D&D setting, there is no depth in character developement. Only the Neverwinter name connects it to the D&D Universe. But lets ignore this, its still somehow funny, i like the forge system.
Mage and Cleric have atleast some of the Original spells, they wont follow the rules, but thats another topic.
The same for the Warriors, one for Defense, one for Offense, classic design.
But the Rogue...he was stripped to a "i_want _to_deal_the_highest_DPS_EV0R-WoW clone"
I for myself would trade 50% of my damage to get the classic support rogue.
If i could disarm DEADLY traps to reach secret passages, easier ways etc. but the traps are just a joke so far, you can see them even if you are not a rogue, you can avoid them without problems, and even if you run into them, they wont even scratch your armor.
If i could SET traps to manipulate the battlefield for my advantage.
If i could use Poisons to inflict debuffs to my enemys, so that my team has an advantage.
If I could find and use hidden passages, but that was reserved for the Warriors.
If i could open doors and chest, so that my team can reach a better way or extra loot.
If i could Sneak to watch for enemys, so that i can build a tactic with my teammates, reach better spots for my advantage, sneak behind enemys to open a secret passage to avoid a battle...but the Stealth here is just a "more damage" ability.
I have not given up the hope for a rework.
if he would stay like he is now, i would switch to the locked class (possible archer/ranger), jsut because its depressing to see my Rogue castrated this way.
Or am i the only one who thinks like this?
Am i the only one who likes his rogue intelligent and skillfully, isntead of power-damage?
In generell the whole D&D setting, there is no depth in character developement. Only the Neverwinter name connects it to the D&D Universe. But lets ignore this, its still somehow funny, i like the forge system.
Mage and Cleric have atleast some of the Original spells, they wont follow the rules, but thats another topic.
The same for the Warriors, one for Defense, one for Offense, classic design.
But the Rogue...he was stripped to a "i_want _to_deal_the_highest_DPS_EV0R-WoW clone"
I for myself would trade 50% of my damage to get the classic support rogue.
If i could disarm DEADLY traps to reach secret passages, easier ways etc. but the traps are just a joke so far, you can see them even if you are not a rogue, you can avoid them without problems, and even if you run into them, they wont even scratch your armor.
If i could SET traps to manipulate the battlefield for my advantage.
If i could use Poisons to inflict debuffs to my enemys, so that my team has an advantage.
If I could find and use hidden passages, but that was reserved for the Warriors.
If i could open doors and chest, so that my team can reach a better way or extra loot.
If i could Sneak to watch for enemys, so that i can build a tactic with my teammates, reach better spots for my advantage, sneak behind enemys to open a secret passage to avoid a battle...but the Stealth here is just a "more damage" ability.
I have not given up the hope for a rework.
if he would stay like he is now, i would switch to the locked class (possible archer/ranger), jsut because its depressing to see my Rogue castrated this way.
Or am i the only one who thinks like this?
Am i the only one who likes his rogue intelligent and skillfully, isntead of power-damage?
Post edited by lazerusai on
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Comments
I feel there should be some sort of incentive to disarm traps. As OP suggested, maybe acquire materials to forge your own traps?
PVPer rocking it Solo queue style since the dawn of Neverwinter
I wish they would have designed some rogue specific quests where you get to sneak around and assassinate people a la Assassin's Creed or Metal Gear Solid.
Don't get me wrong, I like the game so far, but I really wish the devs would stop trying to copy WoW in every possible aspect.
sure, he reads like it was described in the wiki entry for the 4th edition or like the Rogue of the 4th
The 3.5 Assassin feels more like an assassin.
Posion, Death Attacks, Bleed, Debuffs...
The Rogue we have feels not like a rogue, he feels not like the assassin...he feels like my first character i made in WoW after release. A stupid "stay behind the enemy and deal a lot of damage" rogue.
his battlestealth, no his whole design feels like the rage of a barbarian. i mean...they just need to rename some skills and he IS the perfect orcish barbarian. replace his dagger with two small axes and you got him.
I tried to sneak past some enemys.
what was the result? every single enemy got the purple ? over their head.
sure...great stealth...its like i would sneak in a heavy armor with holy cleric lights around me.
If i think about D&D and a Rogue, i will always think about 2e and 3e, the classic Thief design. disarming traps, sneak, scout, lockpick, steal...
most of the D&D Players i know dont like the 4e.
the 5th post says it all (WarOne)
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/317788.page
They're still at the stage of getting servers stable, so be patient people.
I just wish the rogues damage came from more than I run in single target smash kill with no strategy other than how he can avoid dying while doing that. Comabt advantage is not significant enough for the rogue. They get more out of it than other classes, but it does not have the "feel" of D&D Sneak Attack.
What you mention about a rogue placing traps. THis could still be done as a new rogue class a trap rogue. And that could be interesting.
I *would* like to see more rp/story elements as OP suggests and possibly at least lifting and placing traps. It would be interesting to have perhaps one or more of the powers be related to poison and actually be purchasable or craftable items, with its own tutorial quest.
On the other hand, I don't want to make characters more complicated, I'm not a "Spreadsheet Gamer." I know some people really enjoy that, though.
I LOVE my two-weapon fighting Ranger.
But a rogue class would be awesome
:-D
The class is fun and rogues should deal a ton of damage but it needs tweaking IMO.
Part of the issue is there is no real skill system.
In the very least they should make rogues be able to have some enhanced movement or skills in exchange for some of their survivability.
I know picking pockeds and scaling walls doesn't make sense in this game but some nod that way.
This is more like a two-weapon fighting, light armored, with a spash of ranging fighter who has the ability to disarm small, useless traps that protect nothing and kill no one (and give no bonus/xp to disarm).
While fun to play, this is in no way a rogue/thief class in any way.
yes i have played DDO, and no i dont want to have him that essential to the group, this would not fit.
but in my opinion it would be better if he would be more tactical, that was always the sense of a Rogue, playing intelligent. if you dont want to think, pick a fighter.
you can avoid all traps, Dungeoneering can discover them too, so there is no problem if they would be more deadly.
i agree with the movement, its <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>^^
Duelist Furry would probably be overpowered for PvP if it could be done on the move, but it's great for party PvP. So that balances out nicely, for me anyway, with the other At-Wills.
What feels slightly 'off' though, is with Gloaming Cut maximesed and having max stealth return on it, I'm more often than not able to stay stealthed the entire fight wile switching between Bait and Switch and ShadowStrike to replenish the stealth bar.
Gloaming Cut, as well as other skills, feel more like they ought to be follow-ups to one another, with an opener and a finisher. It's nice that the enemies are all clueless, but it looks like I'm walking around trimming the hedges.
Anyway, just 2 cents.
Y
i know that the gameplay is different, but the class design feels the same. pure dps, no rogue things.
even the GW2 Thief had mor thief-abilitys, and this game was DD only.
As yarknarf said, he is more like a two-weapon fighting Ranger.
Not a Rogue, for that he would need more Stealth, more Trap and other Thief stuff
neither is he an Assassin, for that he would need Vorpal and Poison,
he is not a two weapon fighter, for that he is to weak in VIT...
he is like a Ranger who had some similar abilitys, trapfinding, two weapon fighting, sneak...
I enjoy it but it feels more appropriate to call the character a duelist or even a dual-wield ranger than a rogue.
no more sneaky stuff, only slashy slashy
*want my thief back*
+1 to the part on dual-wield ranger.
It certain feels like playing a blood-thirsty dual-wield ranger than a stealthy assassin.
I will refer to GW2, although I hate that game, to kinda make a suggested modification to make it more of a 'trickster' class. Think of the engineer in that game. The gadgets he had the, elixirs he dropped to produce effects. What if rogues had a similar idea. Instead of having to stop and wait for a rogue to place a trap, what if it was a combat, like a snare. You throw a little contraption and when it lands snares an enemy. What if we threw elixirs that coated them and dropped their armor? Or dealt damage over time...
I think I make my point. This is more 'tricksy' than our current form.
But don't get me wrong, I love what we do. I love the high damage, the fast paced action. Need to time your attacks just right....I love it.
assassin is even more stealth and situation based, sneak up to a single enemy and onehit him with your vorpal strike.
or like in 3.5 (?) you ahve a chance to vorpal the target if you roll a natural 20.
poisons to weaken the enemy, lower his overall hitpoints, streght, agility, deal damage over time, daze them, or even kill them...just poison.
the mechanik with poisoned weapons itself would be nice, hope that one of the next paragons will be the assassin. btw, will we get a free reset then?
potion thrower would not realy fit in my opinion. trapse could work, but infight it would be a problem.
the potion stuff is more like the druid could be with his natural spells.
^^^^ THIS sooooo much.
After playing GW2 the locked movement combat feels so wrong it's painful. I want to enjoy this game, but the lack of movement during fights is killing it for me to be honest.
Wait until you go to PvP. People just running around make you lose 50% of your damage. Move, hit once, move, hit once... Waiting on substantial updates before i return to the game.
Problem is, "sneaky" doesn't work very well unless the whole game is based on sneakiness. The AD&D Thief was almost useless in combat, unless the DM was very generous with allowing backstab; other classes didn't have to constantly play "DM may I" to be useful. And D&D has traditionally been a very combat-heavy game. And Nevewinter, being an action combat MMO, has even less room for a true sneaky character.
3E improved the class by giving clear-cut ways to get sneak attack, but also demphasized the sneakiness. 4E's Rogue is basically the same, just streamlined and with all the lame "screw-the-rogue" immunities to sneak attack taken out (which Pathfinder did as well). 4E didn't make the Rogue any less "sneaky" than 3.5's Rogue.
Neverwinter's Rogue has a flavor of sneakiness with the "Stealth" mechanic, and that's about all I think is reasonably feasible given the overall game design.
Please go back to gw2 then, I hated that floaty weightless mess of a combat system. It's basically the idea of a WoW players idea of action combat, a perversion of actual action games.