Threatening Rush for Guardians (Lvl 30 and above thread) Aggro Holding etc

sonictriblade · May 2013

Hi guys,

So I've been searching around the forums and I see people discussing about tanking mechanics etc.

Some people were talking about issues holding aggro, some people with issues of trying to get aggro and so on.

As a lvl 40 guardian atm, I don't find it hard at all.

With Threatening Rush as your primary At-will skill, all I do all day is rush around the map and I get every mob's attention. However, some mobs have a tendency to focus a random target and use a powerful skill on them. I believe that is completely normal as the devs are trying to navigate away from traditional tanking.

Also, Threatening Rush gets all the targets marked as long as I'm constantly charging around. For guardians who don't have the skill yet a.k.a lower level :

Threatening Rush : Rush to a target, dealing damage and temporarily marks all nearby targets.

I still see a few Guardians who uses Cleave as their primary At-will skills and maybe that's one of the reasons aggro holding is an issue?

I will post my tanking build here for u guys to try out. OR maybe the threads I'm reading are all lowbies lower than lvl 30 figuring out y tanking is so weird this game.

At-will skills :
-Threatening Rush
-Tide of iron

Encounter :
-Into the fray
-Enforced threat
-Frontline surge (Lunging strike is viable as well since ur flying all over the place)

Daily :
-Fighter's Recovery
-Villain's Menace (most of the time I use Recovery especially when the party is getting swarmed by lots of adds)

Class feature :
-Enhanced Mark
-Ferocious Mark (it's a life saver every 5 mins)

optional : Shield talent (only if maxxed out)

Tell me what u guys think?

xervai · May 2013

You nailed it. I tend to take the 3 shouts including the one that taunts when your allies are hit and gives you a resistance bonus if specced for it.

Just zoom zoom and shout it out. I also take the DPS dailies as the action point gain is extreme with all the buffs, taunting, blocking going on.

cihuacoatl · May 2013

Your build is very solid and thanks for posting it.

Nice information... this is what I have found out. Up until about level 35 threat management is a nightmare... because we lack both the skills and feats to do anything useful to manage threat.

Then again around 45-50s it becomes an issue again because TR get something special and start pulling threat again. I just hit 52 threat management seems to take more work again. I have a feeling a lot of this has to do with gear/builds not only the GF but your party mates. Meaning if your in all green and your TR is all blue... good luck.

I have a feeling that once we all hit 60 things will work themselves out...

Though I love your build... I use cleave/threatening rush... I have yet to try tide of iron instead of cleave. Makes since though seeing cleave generates no bonus threat. My other thoughts are if any of the other paragon trees other than Tactics can hold threat.

sonictriblade · May 2013

The reason why I didn't replace Tide of Iron because it's one of the fastest Shield meter generation skill among everything else. In dungeons and skirmishes, our Shield meter tends to break in a matter of seconds when all mobs are targetting you. So what I normally do is Block all dmg until it breaks, RUN and use Threatening Shout or Into the Fray depending which is on CD, then back in as soon as it starts recharging again. Works everytime. (The cleric must also do his job to heal when all the chaos is happening)

Occassionally, I might consider Lunging strike cuz :
1) When boss uses his hardcore RED aoe spells, I can charge to a range ADD (if there is one) instead of running away.
2) I have the feat talent under Protector (the last tree) that gives me extra threat and disrupts the enemy.

baconnaise · May 2013

I didn't bother with threat talents or feats and focus instead on dps. You still have to spec into some threat powers and you get the mark system at 10 or 15 forget. Granted if I do an area with tough mobs or bosses say a skirmish or dungeon I have to switch my passives out but overall the single mark system seems to work fine for keeping aggro since your at wills change while you guard.

THe problem with the system is the way it breaks on damage taken which is just utterly idiotic and hopefully a bug. THere's really no reason for the marks to just go away because something hit you while turned or broke the shield meter. GF's get con as primary so it really boils down to Cryptic or whoever (unlikely it will happen anytime soon) will actually make the tank class work at the most basic level. Currently it does not and requires constant reapplication of marks and using a broken system where you can't take any damage at all or it throws your core mechanic out the window. There's really no reason whatsoever to take any feats or extra powers for a broken system for threat and is rather futile.

rhendura · May 2013

I have been noticing on my GF that the mark only goes away on enemies that hit your character.(i.e mark the boss, and the boss stays marked for me even though an archer crept up behind me and dealt damage) Not 100% certain, it just seems to be working that way for me at the moment. It is hard to tell when I take damage some times just because there seems to be 2-3 TRs in every party I get into who all group around me so it becomes hard to see the red damage ticks.

sandanglotka · May 2013

Yup threatening rush combined with enhanced mark is great for aggron I havent had much issues either, although my choices of dailys/encounters/class features differ a bit from.you.

sonictriblade · May 2013

We have to remember that Cryptic is trying to move away from traditional MMO playstyle. The idea of true action combat is to make it interesting and real time meaning if u click once, the character will attack once. I understand that as a tank, our job is to hold aggro all the time but from my point of view, holding aggro 24/7 will break the game mechanics.

The reason being, every class has a dodge mechanic (dodge, roll, blink, sprint). If the tank were to take dmg all the time while the other classes are just standing beside stabbing em to death, It's pretty.. boring. They want every class to keep moving not just to avoid RED AOE's, but also normal mob attacks.

One thing I realized when I'm fighting bosses is that we can never aggro every mob in the area especially when there's tons. So, to combat that, I'm always Threatening rush every mob including the boss. I'll also keep Mark on the boss and he'll just chase me. He can't really keep up cuz i'm always moving around marking every add. Occassionally, he will charge at a random player which is normal and then come back to me after 1-2 hits.

I never really have any problems tanking at all. In fact, I find it fun cuz I'm always moving and there's things to click every sec. The only sad part is grouping with pubs who only wants to focus on the boss, wiping the team cuz too many adds.

@baconnaise : I didn't put a single point into any threat increase feats. The only one was Powerful Strike @ the Tactician tree cuz I want the 100% interrupt. Also what you said about losing mark when you get hit, I believe Cryptic wants you to block and run away instead. It's more of a challenge I guess.

vbhhd · May 2013

Good guide. Threatening rush is quite good. Personally I'm only late 30's atm, but I have not had any serious issues with threat management.

Whenever I mark a target and use the at will guarding left click attack two or three times, I can seem to be able to hold any target for the next 8-15 seconds, which actually allows time to mark and hit another, or actually dps him and then re-mark later. It seems that if your actually willing to mark your target and use the few abilities that DONT break the mark, you can build a huge amount of threat very quickly and hold it for some time. You just have to be willing to do virtually zero damage while your using that guarding at will attack.

Threatening rush is quite good for getting around and getting a little threat very quickly, but it doesn't seem to stack it very well, combo'ing it with other abilities seems much preferable.

Oh and good tip: your companion can break the mark if they attack your enemies too, so dps companions aren't a great idea.

ugibugibugi · May 2013

People crying about not holding threat, is people who think this game is wow, and think you should tank the same way ^^.

Your build looks good and yes that is the same way/build i use at 60 pretty much (except certain smaller changes)

moriant42 · May 2013

vbhhd wrote: »

Oh and good tip: your companion can break the mark if they attack your enemies too, so dps companions aren't a great idea.

Uh.. Mark breaks when the marked target damages you. So, if you block and use the 2 block at-wills, you can keep the target marked and do damage, even aoe damage with the block-stab (plus extra threat). You can even sneak in encounter abilities between attacks and maintain the mark.

chonir01 · May 2013

Trying to hold threat on every single mob in a T2 instance is just not viable.

As a GF I make sure I lock down the boss (assuming we are fighting a boss) and as many powerful adds as I can. Minions I pretty much ignore. Yes they will be marked by my rushing around, its not my objective tho. They are there for me to either move out of something bad (A charge at them) or to be totally ignored. The CW / GWF are there to deal with them. Sure some will attack me b/c I drew threat with a rush / cleave combo ... just a side effect of what I am doing.

Thats not to say I dont aim for the little buggers as much as possible with my abilitys if they are in range, I'll try and hit them with Frontline etc for the knockdown and damage. I guess what I'm saying is that I'm not trying to tank every single mob in every single encounter. My *job* as a GF is to keep the heavy hitters away from my more delicate team mates.

Having *everything* on you, yes is is possible to do that, will just chew your shield away in seconds and leave you open to way to many hits as you try to rebuild it ready for the big hits that are coming.

Stop playing like WOW and expecting every single mob to stick to you, your DPS to AoE while your cleric stands off to one side tossing heals. This is not WOW. DPS are expected to deal with minions, sometimes a large add will come lose and attack someone, thats why you have a dodge until the tank can grab it back. Hell some bosses spawn so many dangerous adds that unless DPS are dealing with a couple your gonna be in a world of hurt. DPS in this game have to step it up and not expect the tank to hold everything in a nice pile for them to hit thier 3-4 button AOE rotation and e-peen the meters.

hoistalldaybro · May 2013

Once you start unlocking feats/skills for the GF its gets SO easy to hold aggro. I usually take more damage than everyone in my party put together. I love that you to be on top of your aggro in runs. The game makes every one play their role how its supposed to be played. Once you start getting into the later dgns and the epic ones the mobs that some of the bosses spawn can't be zerged. The party actually has to control the fight and its so much fun. I am loving every second of GF.

gholzan · May 2013

One issue I've been having with threat is that in any given group, there are usually 1-3 tanking companions that my party has active. If their companion dies, the mob goes straight to them. I do what I can, and at the moment, I am generally on top of the Kills, Damage Taken, and Mobs Killed lists. I'm a level 27 GF. I am thinking of switching to a GWF, simply because it looks like they're having more fun than me

arktourosx · May 2013

gholzan wrote: »

One issue I've been having with threat is that in any given group, there are usually 1-3 tanking companions that my party has active. If their companion dies, the mob goes straight to them. I do what I can, and at the moment, I am generally on top of the Kills, Damage Taken, and Mobs Killed lists. I'm a level 27 GF. I am thinking of switching to a GWF, simply because it looks like they're having more fun than me

This goes away once you get into the 30+ dungeons and there's so much AOE that most tanking companions (except Golem) will die very quickly.

If it really bothers you just have them dismiss the companion. If they don't, let them die.

arktourosx · May 2013

Also this is good to hear. I am 34 so not quite up to Threatening Rush and was wondering if it would be a viable alternative to Cleave since Aggravating Strike was typically better for AOE damage purposes (it still has a 180 AOE and does more damage than Cleave) but it is reliant on you being able to keep blocking with guard meter. I refuse to give up Tide of Iron because of how amazing it is at generating Shield Meter back.

megabytex1 · July 2013

I love how everyone is complaining about holding threat. I am lvl 42 atm and I have NEVER had a issue holding threat. I'm glad to know people would rather play a dps role then tank. Makes my class more rare, meaning I will find groups faster and makes items in AH uber cheap for my char

trollgre · July 2013

i can hold aggro even without enhanced mark or feats (trample the fallen is much better for me)
if you mark them but does not attack them they have tendency to switch target
if you use Threat rush you must use cleave or any attack to hit all marked targets to make them target you

you dont need to block normal attacks just block attacks that can stun/knock or deals high damage

axer128 · August 2013

I guess if your at the very low end of the gear score (and most of your party) you could do that.

But yea at the higher levels - cleave is where its at. Rush does almost no damage. Cleave does quite a lot. Plus your party should be surviving most everything but the hardest bosses even without your help (GFs are rarely even taken on most dungeons given how unneccesary they are).

Speeds up dungeons, and holds agro just fine. At most I also slot enforced threat if I need more.

I do keep rush on my rightclick - but I use it more so for the debuff portion of the mark, then the agro. Only when im playing with highly skilled CWs who are doing solid aoe dmg (not kb kills) so as to up there damage aoe stype.

Single target its faster to use your tab mark then go back to cleaving. (Or stabbing if you need more threat).

One fight its nice in is the karrundax 2nd mini boss (magera) - since the adds spawn at such an insane rate, its sometimes tough to keep them all marked (only last 20s) with just tab, so rush works good on grps. Though have to be careful and mostly use tab, as you cant rush into the boss (and pull the other 40 adds your kiting onto the rogue).

Otherwise nah, not really a high priority skill at endgame pve imo. Use it more in pvp to keep up with runners.

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silverquick · June 2014

megabytex1 wrote: »

I love how everyone is complaining about holding threat. I am lvl 42 atm and I have NEVER had a issue holding threat. I'm glad to know people would rather play a dps role then tank. Makes my class more rare, meaning I will find groups faster and makes items in AH uber cheap for my char

That's because you haven't hit the upper T2 dungeons yet.

You can hold agro on about 6-8 mobs, but in those dungeons they are at times thrown at you in numbers upwards of 20-30.

Its been a large problem with the GF class for some time. Not many of the Boss mobs bother to actually melee they just throw things at you or used Ranged attacks you so there's no real need for tanking any Boss Mobs.

So most of your purpose gets excluded. Ergo the reason Devs are currently looking at both your Shield and ways to increase your threat in Mass Mob situations. These are the buffs being talked about for GFs.

cookiecrisp15 · June 2014

date of the last post.

Threatening Rush for Guardians (Lvl 30 and above thread) Aggro Holding etc

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