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Raise the cost of respec's (not trolling)
clockwerkninja
Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 0 Arc User
I have stated in other threads my distaste for having the respec option in the game. I have also read the reasons others want respecs and it mostly comes down to "theory crafting" or min maxing for pvp vs pve content.
I would like to offer a lesson in D&D gaming to those who do not understand why so many who love the game hate the thought of having this option.
See, in a D&D game min/maxing is frowned on and changing skills after picking them to match someone else who has a better build is unheard of.
I think everyone should stop trying to play those other games and start playing this game. In this game you will not be facing other players who have spammed respec's every time they see a better build. ..You have the option of re-rolling as many toons as you can muster to get the one you want however. This is how it is done in a D&D game.
I want to sart the movement to raise tho cost of respecs..I expect it to fail, as cryptic has to deal to some degree, but those screaming about how this game needs to match every other mmo on this option also need to understand that they stand to lose just as many players by going to far in that direction .
I would like to offer a lesson in D&D gaming to those who do not understand why so many who love the game hate the thought of having this option.
See, in a D&D game min/maxing is frowned on and changing skills after picking them to match someone else who has a better build is unheard of.
I think everyone should stop trying to play those other games and start playing this game. In this game you will not be facing other players who have spammed respec's every time they see a better build. ..You have the option of re-rolling as many toons as you can muster to get the one you want however. This is how it is done in a D&D game.
I want to sart the movement to raise tho cost of respecs..I expect it to fail, as cryptic has to deal to some degree, but those screaming about how this game needs to match every other mmo on this option also need to understand that they stand to lose just as many players by going to far in that direction .
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Quote Originally Posted by roents
It's an "open beta" that can't be wiped even in the midst of multiple economy destroying exploits. FUN
Quote Originally Posted by roents
It's an "open beta" that can't be wiped even in the midst of multiple economy destroying exploits. FUN
Post edited by clockwerkninja on
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2) 4th edition the edition this is supposed to be based on allows retraining so your point is moot.
In DnD you figure out what you want to play, "Hey, I want to play a Wizard who fights in melee," or, "I want to play a barbarian/bard who uses war chants in combat." You come up with a story and goals and such but you also look into how to make your character not terrible otherwise you actually lower the experience for the other people at the table because they have to carry your *** through encounters and it stresses the DM who now has to account for the power disparity between they players when designing encounters.
Edit: I actually don't care what respecs cost since I can just buy them, the problem isn't the cost, it's mostly that it's a forced cost (same as bank space) it feels like you either pay for these things spend an unreasonable amount of time or not have much fun since you're play experience is actually hindered.
Prior to 4e, you could speak to your DM about the possibility.
Unlike any D&D game, it is not actually possible to know the mechanics of powers and feats without first taking them and then experimenting, because the powers and feats do not fully describe their mechanics ("for a medium duration", "has a chance to", etc.).
There is a forum in the WotC D&D forums specifically for character optimization, so while you may frown upon it, at least some of the D&D community and WotC itself do not. It is unfortunate that you aren't good at looking at a large number of mechanics and seeing how they interact, but that is a very interesting part of D&D for some people.
You say the post isn't a troll, but literally everything about it is factually incorrect.
One of these is necessary: Respecializing powers should be priced trivially, or all powers and feats should describe completely what they do. I would prefer the former, since it makes practical testing possible and enhances character diversity (have a couple PvP and PvE specs so that you can fill one of several roles).
It needs respecs.
If you're not trolling then..... well nevermind.
I like respecs actually being slightly harder to get, but they need to give more alternative ways to get them. Let the 600 zen option be an OPTION, a convenience option.
Everyone who is replying I feel still wants to change this game into every other mmo game..Just play this game, where everyone follows the same rules. In that, no system can be unfair.
Quote Originally Posted by roents
It's an "open beta" that can't be wiped even in the midst of multiple economy destroying exploits. FUN
If people want to pay money for respecs more often, why not let them? It doesn't really hurt you for them to respec as they want and provides funds to the company that made the game, which they need to continue running and improving the game. I think the current respec system is fine if they would just have more information on exactly what each skill and feat actually does. People wouldn't need to respec as much, and the people that want to maximize to swap back and forth can pay for that privilege.
Quote Originally Posted by roents
It's an "open beta" that can't be wiped even in the midst of multiple economy destroying exploits. FUN
Most people don't realize they've made serious mistakes until at least their 30s. Could you re-roll then? Sure. Is that fun? Not so much.
But it is free to do so. Paying is for the convenience. It also supports the maintenance and development of the game. You have a free option. Just because it is not desirable does not make it wrong.
I have a pnp game that I'm DMing on the 11th. I can't wait to see the look on everyone's face when I tell them that they have to pay me real money to retrain their feats, when they level.
Or we could just try to understand that, while the similarities are fun and immersive, this is a very different game than a pnp DnD campaign.
I have no idea why you are addressing me regarding the pros for keeping the respec system in the game as my posts were in defense of keeping it. In fact, your entire statement is essentially my first post in this thread. Perhaps you should read the threads before posting.
I was not disagreeing with you, just expanding on what you said with my own opinion and views. Calm down.
Here's just SOME of the differences and here's why the comparison doesn't work.
Core Rules
P&P - the publisher (WotC or whoever) publishes the rule set in a series of books. Those books may have small adendums, but for the most part stay static until the next version (or until they add a few pages and republish it to make more money). From time to time they will most likely publish supplements with cooler feats, items, etc. - again, so you buy it and they make more money.
MMO - the publisher creates the game with a specific set of rules. Because it's an online game, the rules can be changed AT WILL and WITHOUT WARNING.
Character Longevity
P&P - In P&P, it's basically one life to live... not barring reincarnation, resurrection or raise dead - most of which are completely outside the scope of low level players. Characters don't move from campaign to campaign in general and if your character lives more than a year (Real life year), you're DM is generally a wussy.
MMO - Online is completely different, characters last YEARS since there is no true death. Love it... hate it... that's how it works. So characters are around for a LONG, LONG time
Balance
P&P - In a real D&D game, the DM maintains balance in the game (if he's any good and it's not a free for all monty haul campaign). He can adapt anything the players do and throw it right back at them. Or he can house rule something away. If he does, most decent DM's (oxymoron?!) will let the player swap out the offending feat/spell/etc.
MMO - Balance is maintained by a constant and consistent barrage of nerfs. Nerf one class because this class whines... then, that makes another class too powerful, so nerf it too. And so it goes. In other words, the nerf bat is WIDE and swings OFTEN. This means the game itself, the rules and everything you did to customize and groom your character can change at the drop of a dime.
Roleplaying
P&P - In pen and paper, that's what it's all about. You don't just fight, fight, fight. Sometimes, you plan... you set traps... you lure the enemy in or use their own things again them. You can talk your way out of fights, gamble in the local tavern and then check out the town's house of ill repute.
MMO - NO ROLEPLAYING... EVER. There is no other solution, other than a TINY set of possibilities the DEV's have programmed. There is no taking a month of adventuring and courting a nobleman's daughter. There is no buying up property with your dungeon earnings and becoming a landlord... there are your skills... your powers and your feats... and your LEWTZ.
Party
P&P - In general, you have a consistant static party that you play with all of the time. A character may die, but in general that person is replaced by a similiar level character shortly after their demise. Loot and magic items are shared and things are generally done for the good of the party.
MMO - Obviously it varies and you could certainly have a regular group, but I've found that generally this is NOT the case in MMO and certainly NOT to the same level as P&P. At best you usually have a guild where you may or may not find regular grouping partners where mostly likely... you will do the same dungeon as yesterday to try to get the elusive LEWTZ.
A few other things are bound to character, bound to account items. There is NOTHING bound in P&P... well, except for a few offshoot supplements. Consequently, loot was passed around, inherited and generally made to work for the good of the party.
Those are VERY SIGNIFICANT differences. Any comparison between P&P and MMO is therefore null and void. Because you are trying to compare two completely different things. Respec'ing is not just OKAY... it is NECESSARY.
I'm quite calm, just confused why you would be quoting me on your replies instead of the party you were actually seeking to address. The phrasing of your post seemed to be a reply to me rather than a follow up reference agreeing with me.
The Concealment Operative from SWTOR comes to mind. Without a reasonable method of respec, your maximum level capped character could be crippled.
Cryptic gives free respecs when class mechanics or powers change in their other games, I believe they will do so here as well.
"Stop trying to change the game."
"Make respecs more expensive!"
Those two statements are at odds with each other.